My new Accucraft can't take on gas enough for firing up

Swedmodeler

Swedmodeler

Registered
1 Nov 2018
35
5
63
Kingdom of Sweden
Hello!

My Accucraft Edrig type named "Sir geraint" arrived one month ago from the GB and looks as if he was new. Price was fair so I bought it, despite lack of a cab roof (but I intend to construct one myself). This is my first attempt in live steam. I printed out an user manual from Accucraft before steaming up the first time. The problem is that I can't get enough gas in the tank. In the first test run some weeks ago I had to fill the tank several times to get enough pressure to test it in a bench as well as little on my tracks. The second run last weekend was a disaster. Every time the manometer began to show steam pressure the gas tank was empty. I use an ordinary gaslighter can with a short plastic adapter or nipple, that come with it together with others who don't fit. Shall I buy myself another adapter? I have seen some longer ones in brass on the net but they seem to be intended for canisters for other makes such as Roundhouse?

Regards from Claes in Sweden

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dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
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St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
You could try contacting Anything Narrow Gauge, whilst they do Roundhouse Brass Ones they may be able to help with ones suitable for your Loco.

 
Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

Retired Oik
27 Oct 2009
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Yep, I have a brass adapter fro my Accucrfaft Shay.

The other thing I do is to fill the boiler with freshly boiled water - don't like to waste my gas :p:p
 
maxi-model

maxi-model

UK/US/ROW steam narrow gauge railways 1:1
27 Oct 2009
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Filler adaptors are the same for both Accucraft and Roundhouse locos. The bit that is different is which type of butane gas canister you want to attach it to. Try Chuffed2Bits, they have the connector for use with "small" gas canisters (mainly used with blow torches) with the threaded nozzles. You might want to get some spare gas tank filler valves and gas jets while you are there. Mike Darby the owner of Chuffed2Bits is an approved Accucraft service agent is a very helpful and knowledgable chap. I do not know who does the adaptors to fill from the more common camping stove canisters but I bought an adaptor for that from Chuffed2Bits too a few years ago. Max

EDIT - Threaded type canister known as EN417 type. ANG and Chuffed2Bits show they have stock of these. The other one I mentioned is the CP250 bayonet type fitting. I use both. You should be able to find either adaptor so you can fill your Accucraft (and Roundhouse) loco's gas tank from either type of canister.
 
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P

Paul M

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25 Oct 2016
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Royston
It's not a fault with the filler on the tank, rather than the gas adapter? If that is blocked or even leaking it would cause problems, also I assume the gas valve is completely shut when filling?
 
Swedmodeler

Swedmodeler

Registered
1 Nov 2018
35
5
63
Kingdom of Sweden
Filler adaptors are the same for both Accucraft and Roundhouse locos. The bit that is different is which type of butane gas canister you want to attach it to. Try Chuffed2Bits, they have the connector for use with "small" gas canisters (mainly used with blow torches) with the threaded nozzles. You might want to get some spare gas tank filler valves and gas jets while you are there. Mike Darby the owner of Chuffed2Bits is an approved Accucraft service agent is a very helpful and knowledgable chap. I do not know who does the adaptors to fill from the more common camping stove canisters but I bought an adaptor for that from Chuffed2Bits too a few years ago. Max

EDIT - Threaded type canister known as EN417 type. ANG and Chuffed2Bits show they have stock of these. The other one I mentioned is the CP250 bayonet type fitting. I use both. You should be able to find either adaptor so you can fill your Accucraft (and Roundhouse) loco's gas tank from either type of canister.
Thank you Max and others for your advices , I will soon order these parts! :)
 
maxi-model

maxi-model

UK/US/ROW steam narrow gauge railways 1:1
27 Oct 2009
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I am not sure what prior experience you have with gas fired live steam locos Claes. However, there are a few basics when lighting up to follow, this is not a exhaustive complete list but areas I have found helpful to follow, particularly with Accucraft's products -

Make sure you have filled the steam oil reservoir, gas tank and boiler and draw off 40 ml from a fully filled boiler to allow space for steam to form. OK, those are obvious ones ;) Don't forget to drain the steam oil reservoir of water and old oil before filling.
If you still have problems with filling the gas tank, with the correct adaptor, try pushing down on the centre pin on the filler valve a few times. If that does no fix the problem then, as Paul suggested, you may need a new filler valve that can be obtained from either of the suppliers mentioned so far. Other suppliers are available, there is a list on the Accucraft UK site.
Allow a few minutes for the gas in a freshly filled tank to "settle" before lighting up. The spluttering you may experience when trying to light up is caused by the gas remaining in its liquid form and being fed direct to the jet. This is where Rhino's tip can help too - the gas tank is next to the boiler and as they both warm up it helps the liquid butane in the tank turn into a gas.
Check that the gas is flowing to the gas jet freely. Blocked jets are not uncommon - but only try to clear with a blast of gas from the "pointed" end or immerse the jet in lacquer thinners to clean. Never clean the jet with a pin or wire, you will ruin it. It's a good idea to replace the standard gas jet fitment from the factory with a better made one - re' my comment above about buying bits from C2B.
Put a small rolled up piece of blotting paper in the jet - can help to catch any debris before it blocks the jet.
Blocked gas jets can be caused by a number of things - debris, like solder flux, left over from the manufacturing process (Accucraft did a have a problem with this a few years ago), age and level of past use (clean as suggested or replace), debris in butane gas canisters (that's why I store mine upside down and give a quick blast before attaching to the gas tank - think it though)
Make sure that the gas jet has some PTFE tape on its threads to ensure no leaks when it is attached to its holder.
With a 2nd hand loco it is an idea to wipe the O-ring on the gas flow regulator (and steam regulator) with a little steam oil to improve the seal and its operation.
The brass ring on the burner acts just like a car's choke. Use it to half cover the holes on the burner when lighting up, it enrichens the fuel/air mixture. Get yourself a nut driver of the right size, with a long shaft, so you can easily adjust and reposition this device.
Accucraft locos are prone to requiring multiple attempts to light and maintain the flame in the burner. Try leaving the smoke box door open for a couple of minutes after initial lighting to help ensure the burner does not extinguish itself.

All the best, I'm sure with this loco you will be smitten by live steam operation and it will be the first of many. Max
 
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Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

Retired Oik
27 Oct 2009
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It's not a fault with the filler on the tank, rather than the gas adapter? If that is blocked or even leaking it would cause problems, also I assume the gas valve is completely shut when filling?
I have had occasional filler issues - can't remember what I did to overcome them as they were only very occasional, and I don't remember taking anything apart :confused:

That's really helpul, I know :nod::nod:
 
Rhos Helyg Loco Works

Rhos Helyg Loco Works

Registered
I let it drain down of condensate at the end of a running session, to ensure that when I refill it, it's actually full of oil :nod::nod:
"Condensate" being clear water, or emulsified oil?
 
Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

Retired Oik
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North West Norfolk
"Condensate" being clear water, or emulsified oil?
Usually mucky water which then turns a bit thicker - at which point I stop draining down.

It's a 3-cylinder Shay, and I usually do two runs (gas tank full = one run) on one top up with steam oil, by which time I've also used quite a bit of the warm water that I put in the bunker
 
P

Paul M

Registered
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Royston
Usually mucky water which then turns a bit thicker - at which point I stop draining down.

It's a 3-cylinder Shay, and I usually do two runs (gas tank full = one run) on one top up with steam oil, by which time I've also used quite a bit of the warm water that I put in the bunker
That's what I do, and drain all the oil out at the end of a session. Im not sure if leaving watery oil in the reservoir is a good thing, although I might be being over cautious
 
Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

Retired Oik
27 Oct 2009
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North West Norfolk
Im not sure if leaving watery oil in the reservoir is a good thing, although I might be being over cautious

I can't see how it would hurt :think::think:
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
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For the cost of a dribble of steam oil, compared to the investment made in the loco, is it worth worrying about? :think:
 
Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

Retired Oik
27 Oct 2009
25,530
659
North West Norfolk
For the cost of a dribble of steam oil, compared to the investment made in the loco, is it worth worrying about? :think:
All these little dribbles add up y'know ............... but, more important to my mind is to empty the boiler at the end of each running session - which involves turning it upside down :rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
maxi-model

maxi-model

UK/US/ROW steam narrow gauge railways 1:1
27 Oct 2009
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Bucks/Oxon/Northants area
As I understand it the capacities of the boiler, gas tank and the steam oil reservoir should all be related on each individual loco design - The idea being you should run out of gas before water to save risking heat damaging a dry boiler (one of the arguments against filling the boiler with hot water before raising steam) and have sufficient steam oil left, at that point, to not risk risking damaging the piston seals and cylinder bores (am I becoming one ? :) ).

If you have not drained any condensate out of the steam oil reservoir before filling and running then you will not have the full capacity of that reservoir available and risk piston seal damage and cylinder wear, not to mention impaired performance. Likewise if you have left a large quantity of oil/water emulsion in the reservoir before refilling then you have compromised the quantity of actual usable steam oil in there.

Recommendation from C2B - Blow down the boiler and then drain the oil reservoir immediately after a run and refill while all is still warm. And do it after the final run in a session too. Who am I to dismiss the advise of an Accucraft service engineer :devil::shake: Or was it just a wind up ? :) Max
 
M

Moonraker

Registered
25 Oct 2009
873
15
South Australia
I had the exact same problem with my Roundhouse Katie last week. The gas tank was not filling no matter how long I kept the gas canister pressed down on the valve. I then tried unscrewing the valve in the top of the tank and replacing it with a valve from another loco. Problem solved immediately and completely; proving that the filler valve was the problem. So I just need to buy one from Roundhouse for six pounds.

Regards
Peter Lucas
MyLocoSound
 
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