My disappointing Rugen

[RH Prague]

So maybe finally I have made some progress in identifying the problem and it seems the point does have a problem. I spent some time testing with the voltmeter. First I discovered that the point appears dead from the plastic frog (?) on the right of the photo through to the end of the point, on the left. This was rectified if I switched the blad a couple of times. However this didn't help the Rugen get through the point. It stops, and that section goes dead again.

However then I discovered that if it stalls on the point, and then I use the voltmeter and touch the end of the blade (as in the 2nd photo), the Rugen shoots off!

So there is a problem with the blade, as several above have suggested. Is it fixable?

But back to the Rugen. Compared to all my other locos, it is much more "fussy" about the state of the track in certain places, and generally seems uncomfortable at lower speeds. (and always has done). It is the only loco in my small stable that does not have pickup skates (apart from the old Wismar railbus, which has a long wheelbase and pickup to both sets of wheels, so is very steady. Do all the modern Rugens have this pickup set -up? Do any other popular models? And do people generally find this set-up OK compared to the ones with plungers? (I guess so, as I read of lots of happy Rugen owners...)

 

[LVT]

So maybe finally I have made some progress in identifying the problem and it seems the point does have a problem. I spent some time testing with the voltmeter. First I discovered that the point appears dead from the plastic frog (?) on the right of the photo through to the end of the point, on the left. This was rectified if I switched the blad a couple of times. However this didn't help the Rugen get through the point. It stops, and that section goes dead again.

However then I discovered that if it stalls on the point, and then I use the voltmeter and touch the end of the blade (as in the 2nd photo), the Rugen shoots off!

So there is a problem with the blade, as several above have suggested. Is it fixable?

But back to the Rugen. Compared to all my other locos, it is much more "fussy" about the state of the track in certain places, and generally seems uncomfortable at lower speeds. (and always has done). It is the only loco in my small stable that does not have pickup skates (apart from the old Wismar railbus, which has a long wheelbase and pickup to both sets of wheels, so is very steady. Do all the modern Rugens have this pickup set -up? Do any other popular models? And do people generally find this set-up OK compared to the ones with plungers? (I guess so, as I read of lots of happy Rugen owners...)View attachment 291564View attachment 291565

I share your disappointment, having purchased mine when they were first released, I expected it to minimize the effects of lightly maintained shaded trackage ( although without points ). Your description of its “fussiness” parallels my own experience. How a loco with so much weight and so many current collecting wheels can perform so marginally continues to puzzle me after nearly 20 years of ownership. I simply treat it as any of my six-coupled non-skated locos ( including the early Mallets ) and always run with a tethered current-collecting coach or freight car. Skates are important!

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Notice the extra weight is causing flexing of the point rail, making the flakey connection worse/more unreliable.

Greg

 

[Rhinochugger]

I think it's fair to say that successful running of skate-less locos requires a slightly different approach if you're used to running locos with skates.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

I'd say that you need to consider all pickup points and the way they pick up... definitely picking up from a wheel is almost always more problematic than a simple skate, I would agree there.

 

[Paul M]

A silly idea, but have you tried running a5cross the point with the point motor detached? It may be the goodies inside causing the blade's problems

 

[Greg Elmassian]

I think he has proved it iis an electrical conductivity issue.... removing the point motor that is providing some of the pressure to keep the points in place may alter the situation, but making it different does not solve the issue that must be solved when the motor is in place.

Greg

 

[Rhinochugger]

I'd say that you need to consider all pickup points and the way they pick up... definitely picking up from a wheel is almost always more problematic than a simple skate, I would agree there.

Yes, one of your suggestions which has paid off on one of my locos was to increase the weight of the tender where the tender wheels have pick-ups.

This has turned it into a trouble-free track powered loco but, in total there are eight axles picking up current over the length of the loco plus tender - the loco being based on a Bachmann Annie, so a long overall wheelbase.

The Rugens is quite weighty, but the wheelbase is comparatively short.

 

[Paul M]

I think he has proved it iis an electrical conductivity issue.... removing the point motor that is providing some of the pressure to keep the points in place may alter the situation, but making it different does not solve the issue that must be solved when the motor is in place.

Greg

Yes, but the point motor MAY be causing the problem. Incorrect adjustment etc can be making the blade not to make good contact

 

[Greg Elmassian]

The main contact is between the moving rails and the plate under the moving rails, not the moving rails to the fixed rails, so I would respectfully disagree... and again, the throw is non-adjustable as is the force, so the adjustment of the switch motor is irrelevant.

You can see that the OP has not cleaned the flat plates under the moving blades, nor has the underside of the blades been inspected. An oxide-reducing spray, a light mild abrasive cleaning of the plates would be in order... also note that the weight of absence affects the conductivity. This is very common, and of course with unsprung drivers, the loco is not always exerting downforce equally on all drivers, i.e. downforce that makes the important electrical contact.

Greg

 

[trammayo]

If I have a continuity problem with point/switch blades, I have a relatively easy bodge - I connect a wire to the blade (from the appropriate pos or neg rail). just drill a hole in each rail flange, a couple of tiny crimp-ons for the wire, and two 2mm stainless self-tappers! Works every time for me when I can't be bothered lifting the point/switch (it's pnly in recent years that I've come to realise the value of rail clamps!).

 

[dunnyrail]

So maybe finally I have made some progress in identifying the problem and it seems the point does have a problem. I spent some time testing with the voltmeter. First I discovered that the point appears dead from the plastic frog (?) on the right of the photo through to the end of the point, on the left. This was rectified if I switched the blad a couple of times. However this didn't help the Rugen get through the point. It stops, and that section goes dead again.

However then I discovered that if it stalls on the point, and then I use the voltmeter and touch the end of the blade (as in the 2nd photo), the Rugen shoots off!

So there is a problem with the blade, as several above have suggested. Is it fixable?

But back to the Rugen. Compared to all my other locos, it is much more "fussy" about the state of the track in certain places, and generally seems uncomfortable at lower speeds. (and always has done). It is the only loco in my small stable that does not have pickup skates (apart from the old Wismar railbus, which has a long wheelbase and pickup to both sets of wheels, so is very steady. Do all the modern Rugens have this pickup set -up? Do any other popular models? And do people generally find this set-up OK compared to the ones with plungers? (I guess so, as I read of lots of happy Rugen owners...)View attachment 291564View attachment 291565

Have a look at my post 33 where I suggested the problem, yes it is fixable either by soldering some wire to overtake the touch of metal the relies on full power to the blade. Mick also gives a non soldering solution above as well.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Yes, the wire idea is good, be sure to accommodate the fact that the moving rails will flex the wire, so make it from stranded wire, and leave enough so that the flexing does not stress the soldered connections.

 

[Rhinochugger]

Yes, the wire idea is good, be sure to accommodate the fact that the moving rails will flex the wire, so make it from stranded wire, and leave enough so that the flexing does not stress the soldered connections.

And when you have ten wheelers and Connies with tender pickups, you don't even notice when a point blade has lost its connection It wasn't until Neil (RioGrandad) came round with his LGB Sumpter Mallet that it stalled on my USAT #6 turnout and I found I had a dead blade

So yes, skate-less is a slightly different world

 

[Greg Elmassian]

You want trouble? This will test any switch: (sold by Accucraft too!)

 

[Paul M]

You want trouble? This will test any switch: (sold by Accucraft too!)

I thought that was going to be our Casey

 

[Greg Elmassian]

It actually runs quite well considering and mine has a decoder and speaker fitted.

Greg

 

[stevedenver]

fwiw my rugen seems to run fine.
it is so dam heavy i worry it will wear out its gearing even running light.
seems to handle switches well.
clean track is critical especially when locos dont have skates.
pushes the snow plow best of any lgb loco that i have

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Weight makes a huge difference in loco tracking, try the USAT docksider some time, you could put a blade on the front of it to spread ballast

 

[RH Prague]

Thanks for the latest comments. I'm in the process of sealing the railway up for the winter but the Indian Summer weather (ending tonight) has given me a chance to test a bit more.
First I tried to a good clean up of the point blade. Used the track cleaning fluid and toothbrushes. But no effect. Rugen still stopped. However, then I discovered that when I pushed the manual lever of the point so that the blade was hard against the rail, the Rugen took off, just as it did when I used the voltmeter. I've also noticed that the point (and signal) motors are not well supported from underneath right now. Because the railway sits on a soft earth bed on a raised wall, gentle erosion is a constant problem. So I guess all of this, and the note about it being a heavy machine, might explain why the Rugen has a problem there.

However I'm glad that finally somebody ( LVT ) has come forward with the same experience of the Rugen as me. From your post I understand that this model has always been without skates, and probably always will be, is that correct? The wheelbase too short to fit a skate? (My model is a 28003, bought new about 8 years ago). My railway does usually have a strong German coast theme, including a rake of three Zenner Rugen coaches, and I do like the look of the machine. On the other hand I never actually saw one in action on Rugen - it has always been the big 2-10-2 beasts when I've been there - and it looks like locos without skates may be something I should avoid. I'd rather sell a loco than just have it sit unused; at least its good to know that if I do sell it, I'm not selling damaged goods.