My disappointing Rugen

[RH Prague]

Been away from the forum for a while and didn`t have so much time for the hobby last season, but I am sure that my new (2012 purchase) M-LGB Rugen should perform far better than it does, so I would like to consult the experts here. It is ultra sensitive to dirt on the track; it will stop where other locos pass freely, but will then pass over that place OK after I have cleaned that point on the track with my LGB cleaning pad. My brother in law opened it up and felt it had been somewhat over-lubricated, and cleaned it; however I think it has always performed like this, more or less. In particular, it isn`t responsive to the analogue throttle, i cannot get it to smoothly and slowly pull away on a a standing start by gradually opening up the throttle- sometimes I have to go straight to full power to get any life out of it. The motor seems fine though, it pulls good loads up the inclines with no wheel slip.

Surely I should expect better from such a relatively expensive model? It looks lovely, the sound is great, and it is strong enough, but its a bit much to have to constantly prod it into movement while my Stainz will happily trundle around for a couple of hours.

Anybody have this model, or recognise the general symptoms? Any remedies? As you can see, it has no skates and one tyre. Which are the crucial wheels to keep clean - or are all wheels involved in pick up?

Also a general question, - where do you apply lubricant on a loco like this? My BIL said only on the piston rods, not on the axles. And where would you apply lubricant on a diesel such as my 2091?

 

[stockers]

I have this loco and it runs brilliantly, as it should with 8 wheel pickup.(although no skates). I tend to agree with paul, above, It sounds like your wheels are not all picking up current and faulty or oily plungers are a likely cause. I also agree with paul - dont over do the oil or grease. I run my locos for hundreds of hours and never oil the axles or motion. Just check the gear wheel grease once every few years. Of you can see grease leaking from the gear box then there is probably too much.
A damned good clean up and some new bullets (the plungers other name) should make a world of difference.

Other causes of your problem could possibly be.
1. Have you had the base plate off the gear box - the long metal strips pick up current from the bullets and my be fitted incorrectly.
2. Also, if you have had the bottom off the box, an axle might have jumped a single cog and be out of place with the others - this causes binding which may stall your loco.
3. There is quite an extensive circuit board in the analogue Rugens - I suppose it could be faulty but I have never heard of this,

 

[Neil Robinson]

As a ridged 8 coupled loco these locos have more sideplay than most LGB locos. I'm convinced that this is the reason why pickup bullet condition seems more critical than on most other locos. Check that they are the longer, 18mm examples, not the 16mm ones. Also check that the springs in them work well and that each individual wheel picks up satisfactorily.

 

[mike]

if its under warrnety, send it back .other wise, as above.. check that each wheel is picking up power.

 

[dutchelm]

I had problems with my Rugen. Cured the problem by putting some small washers behind the pickup plungers to ensure they were actually touching the wheels.

 

[Tim Brien]

On any LGB drive that does not have track sliders, it is imperative to keep the backs of the wheels clean. Many may get a little lazy with their typical LGB drives as even when the pickup brushes fail, there is always the sliders to compensate. On this loco and the various Mallett variations, clean wheels backs (inner faces) are essential for reliable power pickup.

As mentioned if any maintenance has been carried out on the drive then it is crucial to ensure the two off metal bars (contactor strips) inside the gearbox are correctly aligned to bridge the carbon brush covers. I had an LGB #2055 White Pass diesel that someone had played with the drives and carelessly reassembled them only to find that of twelve wheels and four sliders, only one wheel alone was picking up power. The loco looked like it had never been used.

 

[PhilP]

Pickup is everything on those models without skates. All the above apply.
Do you have, or can you borrow, an digital meter??
turn the engine over, and set the meter to the low resistance/continuity setting. - It should give a 'bleep' if you short the probes together..
Working on one side of the engine. Place probe on wheel at one end, then with other probe work your way along the remaining wheels (same side of the engine).. You should get a 'bleep' each time you touch a wheel, if not then that wheel/brush is not passing current. Make a note of those that are 'iffy', then repeat down the other side of the loco.
I suspect you will find the loco is only picking up power from an odd wheel or two on either side.

You will need to clean the wheel-backs, and the plungers (possibly replace them). you are aiming for a consistent collection of power from all the wheels.. This is more than likely the problem.

 

[meiningen8]

make sure the collector strips that collect current from the pick up bullets are in the right place I have known them to be in the wrong place and this means current is only picked up from one wheel on one side. This has been known to occur from the factory and when owners have reassembled them after cleaning or setting the quartering

 

[funandtrains]

It is also probably not helped by the lack of weight in the new LGB locos making the wheels have less contact with the track.

 

[stockers]

Thats not a problem on mine Steve - its still a pretty heavy loco.

 

[RH Prague]

Thank you all for your replies. My BiL for sure will have a digital meter, and we will carefully inspect the "bullets". That will probably be next week, I will report back on what we find and if we resolve the running issue.

One more question for now, if I may. If we decide to change the bullets (if for example they turn out to be 16mm as Neil mentions) how easy is it to purchase new ones? The loco came from Modelbahn in Germany, which seems quite a big shop, would a shop of that size be likely to stock such things. And are they loco specific? I assume not, although there appears to be more than one size...

 

[stockers]

Try any of the regular suppliers. they are a pretty common spare.
Garden Railway Specialists
Kent Garden Railways
Chalk garden rail
Garden rail centres
P+S hobbies
back2bay6

Other suppliers are available.

or Ebay - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LGB-63120-Electrical-Pickup-Brushes-Pack-of-8-G-Gauge-/331095507012?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item4d16d48044

 

[RH Prague]

Thanks Alan

Yes now I can see that they are widely available, although so far I have only come across pack containing 14mm and 16mm, not 18mm which Neil recommended.

For anyone interested I bought it from Modelland.de not modelbahn as I wrote, almost exactly three years ago, goodness how time flies. I still consider it to be almost brand new.

 

[Zerogee]

For what it's worth, I think this is most likely a problem with your particular example (sorry, I know that's not very helpful), as I have one of just about the same age, also bought from a German dealer, though not Modell-Land in this case, and it seems to run fine. My older green Rugen 0-8-0, on the other hand, was terribly sluggish round curves (even R3) until I removed the old 55020 decoder - it was from around 2000 so had very early factory chipping - and replaced it with a modern Massoth L, which has the back-emf that the 55020 lacked.

Jon.

 

[Neil Robinson]

Thanks Alan

Yes now I can see that they are widely available, although so far I have only come across pack containing 14mm and 16mm, not 18mm which Neil recommended.

My apologies I must have been having a senior moment. They are available in two lengths and the longer ones are needed on the Rugens. I thought the lengths were 16mm and 18mm, but as you have discovered they are in fact 14mm and 16mm.
Lgb list them in packs of mixed lengths but Massoth sell packs with all the same length, reference number 8313608 for the 16mm pack.

 

[RH Prague]

My apologies I must have been having a senior moment. They are available in two lengths and the longer ones are needed on the Rugens. I thought the lengths were 16mm and 18mm, but as you have discovered they are in fact 14mm and 16mm.
Lgb list them in packs of mixed lengths but Massoth sell packs with all the same length, reference number 8313608 for the 16mm pack.

No need for any apology Neil; I greatly appreciate that you and others have quickly directed us towards the likely problem. I've now located supplies of the Massoth 16mms. Actually Modelland have them.

My BiL was initially puzzled when I told him it still isn't running well. He had it taken it away with a circle of track and was convinced it was running just fine after cleaning up some oil residue. But I guess the explanation is that it will indeed run fine on a circle of clean track indoors, it is outdoors, with its various residues, where all the pickups need to be functioning in order to get smooth running...I suppose.

He doesn't speak English so I will be further expanding my Czech vocabulary in order to translate what you have all said. But he will quickly understand the point about the "bullets". He is a heavy electrics guy, but new to the hobby, and was quite puzzled that a new loco does not use skates. To him it seemed like a backward step.

 

[Neil Robinson]

My BiL was initially puzzled when I told him it still isn't running well. He had it taken it away with a circle of track and was convinced it was running just fine after cleaning up some oil residue. But I guess the explanation is that it will indeed run fine on a circle of clean track indoors, it is outdoors, with its various residues, where all the pickups need to be functioning in order to get smooth running...I suppose.

This, to my mind reinforces the suspicion that all is not well with the pickup "bullets"
With the loco on a circle of track (especially R1) the sideplay in the axles is reduced. On a straight or varying curve the sideplay and therefore the contact between wheel back and pickup varies more.

 

[RH Prague]

This, to my mind reinforces the suspicion that all is not well with the pickup "bullets"
With the loco on a circle of track (especially R1) the sideplay in the axles is reduced. On a straight or varying curve the sideplay and therefore the contact between wheel back and pickup varies more.

Yes, that was my thought too, based on your previous remarks about this kind of loco. It was indeed tested on an R1 circle. And you can definitely see the sideplay on the Rugen as it hits one of my inexpertly banked curves.

 

[stockers]

Running on straight track does tend to be the worst for power pickup.

 

[RH Prague]

On any LGB drive that does not have track sliders, it is imperative to keep the backs of the wheels clean. Many may get a little lazy with their typical LGB drives as even when the pickup brushes fail, there is always the sliders to compensate. On this loco and the various Mallett variations, clean wheels backs (inner faces) are essential for reliable power pickup.

So, I am pleased to say that I found the wheel backs were pretty damn dirty; Cleaned them up and a BIG improvement. Thank you !!

I will keep cleaning the wheel backs in the coming days, but still get some 16mm bullets. I am not sure the running is quite as smooth as it should be, especially when pulling away at first from standing start. And then there is my Zillertalbahn loco, which is exhibiting similar problems, but is a different animal, with skates...but I will work on it first before bothering you guys.

All your advice has been much appreciated. It's a nice feeling when something runs better...