Minimum track voltage to run a decoder...?

[Cliff George]

Can anyone give a simple answer to whether there is a significant difference in terms of safety between Li-Ion and Li-Po battery chemistries - is one a better choice than the other, or do they share the same potential problems...?

As I understand it the chemistry of Li-Ion and Li-Po are the same. The packaging is different.

I notice that the packs that Cliff linked to, such as this one:
http://cpc.farnell.com/ansmann/2447-3035/battery-pack-li-ion-4s2p-14-8v/dp/BT06049
appear to have just two simple wire leads, and no fancy extras like the multi-pin balance plugs - is this because they are Li-Ion and not Li-Po...?

No. It is because these packs have an inbuilt protection PCB. It prevents overcharging, overdischarge and will balance charge the cells for you.

 

[Zerogee]

Several good points there from Rhinochugger!

The fuse/circuit breaker mention is a timely reminder - do most folks here still use conventional fuses, or are auto-resetting circuit-breakers becoming more common?

And thanks to Cliff - very useful to know that the packs from CPC/Farnell are internally protected - sounds like they may well be the ones to go for!

Jon.

 

[Railway42]

If you are looking for battery's then I suggest www.component-shop.co.uk. They are a Battery suppler that most radio control people use and they will make a battery pack to suit you.

 

[Zerogee]

........
No. It is because these packs have an inbuilt protection PCB. It prevents overcharging, overdischarge and will balance charge the cells for you.

Hi Cliff, sorry for all the questions, just trying to be certain so apologies if I'm asking the same thing in different ways...

Does the inbuilt protection board on these particular packs mean that the little extra gizmo that you use in your installation, the device that gives you a loud audible warning of over-discharge, is NOT required with these Ansmann packs? Their inbuilt protection will shut the pack down when it is close to "empty"?

I'm just trying to be 100% sure, before I order them, that all I need to buy is this pack:
http://cpc.farnell.com/ansmann/2447-3035/battery-pack-li-ion-4s2p-14-8v/dp/BT06049
plus this charger:
http://cpc.farnell.com/ansmann/9c94131-01/charger-li-ion-14-8v-1-2a/dp/BT06054?in_merch=New Products

Obviously I know I also need the requisite small sundries like fuse/circuit-breaker, charging socket, DPDT switches etc....

I feel like I'm getting there at last... hope this lengthy journey, with many questions, may be of use to others here thinking of following the same path...?

Jon

Thanks!

Jon.

 

[Rhinochugger]

Ansman seem to have a lead in the intelligent world.

My first intelligent charger for NiMh was Ansman, and it will detect the polarity - so you don't have to worry about which way round you connect the charging socket. Limited to 12v though.

 

[Cliff George]

Does the inbuilt protection board on these particular packs mean that the little extra gizmo that you use in your installation, the device that gives you a loud audible warning of over-discharge, is NOT required with these Ansmann packs? Their inbuilt protection will shut the pack down when it is close to "empty"?

Yes according to the specs.

I'm just trying to be 100% sure, before I order them, that all I need to buy is this pack:
http://cpc.farnell.com/ansmann/2447-3035/battery-pack-li-ion-4s2p-14-8v/dp/BT06049
plus this charger:
http://cpc.farnell.com/ansmann/9c94131-01/charger-li-ion-14-8v-1-2a/dp/BT06054?in_merch=New Products

Those are what I would order, although obviously I haven't seen them in the flesh so to speak. There are two other cheaper versions (block and in line)with in a 4S1P configuration which only have 4 cells rather than 8, but the mAH reduces to 2600.

I'm waiting for you to jump in and have a go before maybe getting some myself :-[. I'm spent out just now.

Obviously I know I also need the requisite small sundries like fuse/circuit-breaker, charging socket, DPDT switches etc....

I've not got a fuse/circuit breaker but I've probably got a few spare of the other bits you could have if that helps.

 

[Zerogee]

Yes according to the specs.

Those are what I would order, although obviously I haven't seen them in the flesh so to speak. There are two other cheaper versions (block and in line)with in a 4S1P configuration which only have 4 cells rather than 8, but the mAH reduces to 2600.

I'm waiting for you to jump in and have a go before maybe getting some myself :-[. I'm spent out just now.

I've not got a fuse/circuit breaker but I've probably got a few spare of the other bits you could have if that helps.

Thanks Cliff! OK, I've taken the plunge and placed the order with CPC - at some point I had to stop dithering and actually order something, and this seems the best bet so far! I've gone for the 8 cell pack with the higher capacity, I reckoned that 2600mAh was a little low.
Many thanks for the offer of the odd bits and pieces, but that's OK - I'll pop round the corner to Rapid's trade counter either today or tomorrow and pick up the necessary bits - circuit breaker, charging socket, a couple of DPDT toggles...
One DPDT switch will toggle the battery pack between RUN and CHARGE, with a centre-off to isolate it completely for storage - the other will toggle the decoder power input between track pickups and the output of the DRS Rx (again with a centre-off position to shut down everything).

The battery and charger should be here in a day or two (I paid CPC the extra £2.99 for fast delivery), so I MIGHT just have it all installed in time for Salcott at the weekend! Or then again, if work stays as busy as it is right now, maybe I won't....

Jon.

 

[Zerogee]

Hmmmm.... my original plan to use my Harzkamel as the first test loco for DRS installation has met with a slight setback..... I've just taken the bodyshell off my Kamel for the first time, and discovered that (a) it's not got a Massoth decoder as I'd originally thought - it appears to have (possibly) an Uhlenbrock driving decoder with a SUSI-connected sound module - and (b) it appears to have a power buffer installed (in addition to a Massoth powered coupler at one end, and the smoke unit, and additional lights.... I bought the loco second-hand from Germany, and while the install of the various bits and pieces appears to have been done perfectly well and to a decent standard, there are so many wires (of unfamiliar colours) going every which way that I think it's going to be WAAAAY too complicated a job to figure it all out enough to comfortably work on it, at least at this point.

So, I think I'm going to go to Plan B - my trusty old clamshell-gearbox Whizzy-Cranks 2095! I know this loco well, and did the DCC install myself (definitely an XLS, this time) and at least I know already what all the wiring does and where it goes. I think that with the battery pack replacing one of the lead weights, I should be able to do the conversion much more easily than I could with the Kamel - and hopefully the 2095's total current draw will be significantly less than the Kamel's anyway, which is something I was slightly concerned about with Plan A.

One other advantage that the 2095 has over the Kamel is that it has opening cab doors - which means I may be able to put all the switches, the circuit breaker and the charging lead into the cab, mounted on the cab-back bulkhead and operated with a finger through the cab door. For the Kamel, all this gear would have to be external, or I'd have to cut some kind of removable access hatch.....

We shall see how it goes, once the battery and charger arrive and I can make a proper start. If the 2095 works well, then maybe I'll re-evaluate the Kamel for the next job......?

Jon.