Minimum Amps MTS III

LGB-Sid

LGB-Sid

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Easy question I hope does anybody know what the minimum amps are to power up and run / test an LGB MTS III ? would it power up and test on a LGB starter set power pack ?
 
The actual MTS central station and controller should take very little power at all - you only have to worry about the amp draw of whatever loco you are using in the test (I'm assuming you actually want to see if something runs, rather than just check that the CS powers up?). If you stick to a single-motor LGB loco, I'd think you should be fine.

Jon.
 
Thanks it will be tested with a Staniz so single motor, just want to make sure the station and controls work as they should do, I know I will need a larger power supply for it in the future.
 
A laptop supply is a very smooth output, probably of at least an amp - just check you get the polarity right. The basic old 1/2 amp LGB controller actually chucks out a pretty crude power supply - not 'smooth' at all. I blew up my first Sprog unit on one of these but the kind guys at Sprog replaced it and suggested a smoother supply..
 
When I am using my Massoth 1210Z Central Station at shows I use a laptop 19 volt 5 amp supply with no problem at all.
 
Zerogee said:
The actual MTS central station and controller should take very little power at all - you only have to worry about the amp draw of whatever loco you are using in the test (I'm assuming you actually want to see if something runs, rather than just check that the CS powers up?). If you stick to a single-motor LGB loco, I'd think you should be fine.

Jon.
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Yes you can Power up the MTS III and 55016P with a starter pack power supply to test it :) in Analogue mode it didn't quite work as I expected it to, i wasn't expecting full power to the track in this mode only when in DCC, so a Loco with no chip in sits there lights on full with steam pouring out of it's funnel but with the motor buzzing is this the way it should work ? it also moves backwards and forwards with the handset as it should and as it's a Stainz plays toast scrapping sounds as it moves :) So what is actually stopping the Stainz from moving if the track has full power ??
 
LGB-Sid said:
Yes you can Power up the MTS III and 55016P with a starter pack power supply to test it :) in Analogue mode it didn't quite work as I expected it to, i wasn't expecting full power to the track in this mode only when in DCC, so a Loco with no chip in sits there lights on full with steam pouring out of it's funnel but with the motor buzzing is this the way it should work ? it also moves backwards and forwards with the handset as it should and as it's a Stainz plays toast scrapping sounds as it moves :) So what is actually stopping the Stainz from moving if the track has full power ??
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Analogue mode is performed by a clever little trick called Zero Bit Stretching. This is where the polarity of the wave form when sending a Zero bit is biased towards the direction of travel required by the Analogue loco.

The down side is that there is always a voltage going through the analogue locos motor. When the loco is at stand, the effect will cause the motor to buzz as it is effectively being told to go forwards, then backwards constantly negating rotation of the motor.

Some motors do not like this and they get too hot and possibly burn out (I remember Mike's Piko Railbus failing before he fitted a decoder because of it).
 
Full track power, which I take it to mean "normal" DCC mode is AC, alternating current... which will make a DC motor buzz and eventually overheat and melt itself.

There are some older systems that allow "address 0" which changes the DCC signal from a symmetrical square wave to something called "pulse stretching" and they make the waveform assymetrical, i.e. the positive part of the AC waveform is much longer than the negative part, and thus the DC loco sees "mostly" positive. It sort of works, it is noisy, and it can result in additional heat.

If you are trying analog mode, i.e "address 0" you should not be doing it with a decoder.

I hope this makes sense, don't know what your level of expertise is.

Greg
 
Yeah MTS III doesn't have an "analogue mode" in which the track power is normal DC. MTS does the bit-stretching pseudo-DC thing as the posts above have explained. "Address zero" in this context is purely a naming convention because systems which support this capability tend to let you select it by choosing address zero.

Personally I wouldn't risk ruining the motor for the cost of fitting a decoder. Keep a DC power pack for when you want to run un-chipped locos. It's a generally recommended practice to test on DC when you've just fitted a decoder, that way you can slowly raise the voltage and check for shorts / wiring errors.

My NCE system doesn't support the zero-stretching function, and from what I've read it's fallen out of favour with DCC users over the years.

There is at least one DCC system which DOES have a true analogue mode, made by CT Electronik of Austria. A friend has one (though he's had a lot of trouble with his particular unit).
 
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Thanks for the reply's the intention is not to Run the Locos without decoders, only ran it back and forth along 3m of track half a dozen times to make sure the handset worked. I started this thread because I found a LGB MTS III with hand set at the price I was willing to pay, The only reason for wanting to know if it would power up with a starter set power supply and after testing, if it was normal for the motor in a non DDC loco to buzz, is I needed to test what I had bought works as it should, the best I can without a Chip in the Loco. That's one problem of setting yourself a monthly budget is you spend it before you get all the bits you need at any one time, but didn't want to pass up on the MTS setup :) and needed to test it.
 
Greg Elmassian said:
Yes, is is normal for a non DCC loco to buzz when placed on the DCC powered system.

It's also normal for them to overheat, smoke and burn out the motor.

You are forewarned. (I'm still a bit fuzzy on how you would test a DCC system with a non DCC loco) :eek:

Greg
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You power the station up if it lights up as it should that that's a good start, if the hand set light's up and the buttons work as they should then that's a good start, I added a non DDC train to a track to see if the throttle would move it so that's a good start end of test. I know I can not test the DCC until my decoder comes but I know the system powers up as it should do at least. As per my above comment I do not intend to run non DDC trains adding a train to 3m of track just to see if it moved is all I did as I was not expecting DCC to work the way it does with a DC train that's all.
 
I'm not trying to belabor this, but I will go to my grave disagreeing with you that putting a non DCC loco on a DCC powered track is a part of a good test.

Maybe you will remain unconvinced or wish to continue to disagree, that is clearly your right, but I want to assure anyone else reading this thread in the future.. do not do this.

Regards, Greg
 
Well... IMHO....
Do not do this for any length of time!
Do not leave an analogue loco on the track after you have run it..
NEVER, EVER, EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Leave an analogue loco running on a DCC layout unattended.
If you *really, really* want to run said loco on your (DCC) layout.... Fit a decoder!!
 
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