Massoth PC Module No Longer Available

[Ianjd59]

I may be missing something here, but why not use a Sprog box? I've been using one for a while now, & haven't found anything that I can't program with it. It seems to run on any version of Windows & apparently will run on a mac (although I've no personal experience of this). Any thoughts??

Ian.

 

[mbendebba]

Hello Ian:
I do not know whether or not the sprog box is capable of uploading firmware updates to devices. My guess is that it isn't. The Massoth unit has the capability of doing that as well as all the other functions that you can get from the sprog.

 

[shropshire lad]

It can't load sound files either so it doesn't do either of the things I'm after a PC Modue for

 

[Ianjd59]

Not sure about the firmware issue, I'd have to have a look. The sound issue, I guess you'd have to decide how important that is to you. Personally, I've not needed to load sound files or update firmware, but I have wanted to program decoders from half a dozen or so different manufacturers, which the Sprog does no problem. Horses for courses I guess.

Ian.

 

[muns]

The sprog is unable to perform there proprietry actions (firmware update, sound upload).

 

[shropshire lad]

Ian
My Lenz system can program any NMRA decoder. Updating firmware on my Navigators and other Massoth units without sending them off is a major consideration,along with being to edit sound files means I'll be one of the first in the queue when the new Massoth unit is available.

 

[Zerogee]

Will it be too much to hope that the new Massoth unit will work on Macs as well as PCs.....? Like several others here I use a Sprog for general programming, but I would go for a Massoth unit as well for the specific reasons that Colin pointed out - IF I could use it! I really have never been able to understand why Massoth don't offer Mac versions of their software - surely Macs are not THAT rare in Germany?

Jon.

 

[muns]

Ian
My Lenz system can program any NMRA decoder. Updating firmware on my Navigators and other Massoth units without sending them off is a major consideration,along with being to edit sound files means I'll be one of the first in the queue when the new Massoth unit is available.

Colin,

I hope that I am not going to disapoint you but with the Massoth unit you can only "change" the sounds to a set that Massoth provide not "edit" and change indivdual ones.

 

[shropshire lad]

Cheers for that Mark
I must admit that I hadn't checked but it's not that much of an issue. I've used an ESU programmer before and you could edit sound with that as well via some third party software.

 

[ntpntpntp]

I really have never been able to understand why Massoth don't offer Mac versions of their software - surely Macs are not THAT rare in Germany?

Jon.

No doubt it depends what programming language the software is written in? The good thing about the SPROG/JMRI combination is the JMRI software is free and is written in Java which is intended to be portable across different systems via a "virtual machine" (for example at work I write Java software which runs on Windows, Unix systems, IBM mainframes etc.). As long as the system has a USB port (or a serial port in the case of my old SPROG) then the software can talk through SPROG hardware and out to the decoder. Other programming languages could be used but these may be system-specific (for example a long time ago I wrote a simple SPROG "throttle" program in Visual Basic for Windows just to get some understanding of such things).

As far as SPROG being able to upload firmware and sound files, as has been said these tend to be proprietary operations that are specific to each manufacturer (hence the need for specific ESU or Massoth or QSI etc. programming hardware and software). When programming decoder CV's, this is done using NMRA DCC standard operations that just about all decoders understand: the SPROG itself has its own set of commands and translates these into the NMRA instructions sent to and received from the decoder. JMRI talks to the SPROG using the SPROG's own commands, not NMRA DCC commands.

I have no doubt that if the specification for the firmware and sound file upload commands for the various manufacturers were made publicly available these could be implemented in the SPROG. Not really in the manufacturer's interests I guess.

Also a shame that at (last I heard) Massoth haven't released details of their command station's computer interface so that the likes of JMRI software could talk to Massoth systems as it can with most other DCC systems.

 

[mbendebba]

Nick: I do not think it is in the best interest of manufacturers or customers when manufacturers make public specifications for firmware or sound files upload commands for lots of reasons, the least of which is the economics, as both apple and microsoft can attest. I would rather have it the way it is now.

 

[muns]

Also a shame that at (last I heard) Massoth haven't released details of their command station's computer interface so that the likes of JMRI software could talk to Massoth systems as it can with most other DCC systems.

Nick,

The Massoth protocol that allows software to communicate with their Central Stations is available but you need to apply for it and sign a non-disclosure agreement so I doubt that they would release it to JMRI as the spec would then be in the public domain via the JMRI source code and they would loose control. I have such a license for any software that I decide to write.

In the past I have asked Massoth for details of the Massoth PC module and the LGB55045 protocolwhich was declined as I believe the protocol specification is owned by the author of the original LGB PC application.

 

[mbendebba]

Massoth has released an updated version of their PC Programming Module (product #8175101). It has a USB 2.0 interface, a DiMAX bus terminal, and a four pin interface for updates via SUSI. The RS232 interface is gone.

 

[bunnyrabbit03]

Also a shame that at (last I heard) Massoth haven't released details of their command station's computer interface so that the likes of JMRI software could talk to Massoth systems as it can with most other DCC systems.

Nick,

The Massoth protocol that allows software to communicate with their Central Stations is available but you need to apply for it and sign a non-disclosure agreement so I doubt that they would release it to JMRI as the spec would then be in the public domain via the JMRI source code and they would loose control. I have such a license for any software that I decide to write.

In the past I have asked Massoth for details of the Massoth PC module and the LGB55045 protocolwhich was declined as I believe the protocol specification is owned by the author of the original LGB PC application.

Out of interest, how does Rocrail, which is Open Source, then communicate with the Dimax command station (www.rocrail.net)? The Dimax is listed as supported, although I have not tried it myself (I use Rocrail - and also Touchcab on my iPhone - with my Lenz command station).
Marc

 

[dunnyrail]

Lots of interesting stuff here, from my perspective I think that I need the new Massoth Programmer and a Sprog. I have a selection of LGB, ESU and Massoth chips.

I need to be able to change some sounds I.E. whistle and announcements (Sprog?), certainly by the sound of the above this may be tricky with a Massoth Set Up.

I have a generic LGB setup which works fine with an old banger or a PC running Windows 98, does the new Massoth Kit run with Win 98? This is a big issue for me as since 2000 I have been all Mac. I never want to return to Windows so when the old banger goes pop my LGB Programmer will be outed.

I also also use my iPhone, iPad with a friends Lenz system using Touchcab (but with 00( I washed my mouth out with carbolic yesterday)). Wish that Touchcab could be made compatible with Massoth Central Station, this would be a good cheep way to get more hand units for operators rather than buying the expensive Massoth ones (newer iPods also work OK). Perhaps this is why the open source issue will not be addressed by Massioth.

Never heard of the Rocail for the iPhone, how good is it?
JonD

 

[muns]

Also a shame that at (last I heard) Massoth haven't released details of their command station's computer interface so that the likes of JMRI software could talk to Massoth systems as it can with most other DCC systems.

Nick,

The Massoth protocol that allows software to communicate with their Central Stations is available but you need to apply for it and sign a non-disclosure agreement so I doubt that they would release it to JMRI as the spec would then be in the public domain via the JMRI source code and they would loose control. I have such a license for any software that I decide to write.

In the past I have asked Massoth for details of the Massoth PC module and the LGB55045 protocolwhich was declined as I believe the protocol specification is owned by the author of the original LGB PC application.

Out of interest, how does Rocrail, which is Open Source, then communicate with the Dimax command station (www.rocrail.net)? The Dimax is listed as supported, although I have not tried it myself (I use Rocrail - and also Touchcab on my iPhone - with my Lenz command station).
Marc

Marc,

I can only speculate that the main authors have signed a NDA with Massoth and that Massoth are happy for it to be available in their open source code

I must download Rocrail and give it a go.

Mark.

 

[bunnyrabbit03]

Yes, give it a go, Mark, it is fun and works really well. I have not tried the iPhone/iPod client yet, but use Rocrail on my laptop and Touchcab on the iPhone. The main difference between Rocrail and Touchcab on the iPhone/iPod is that Rocrail requires a PC to run the Rocrail server, i.e. your iPhone 'talks' to the Rocrail server, which in turn communicates with your command station. Touchcab connects directly to your command station, so there is no need for a computer.

Touchcab on the Massoth setup might be a challenge, as all the information - as far as I understand it - is in the navigator, whereas with Lenz and ESU the command station transmits the list/status of locos etc. to every device that is connected to it.

Marc