Looking to install Phoenix Big Sound decoder

[Alco K28]

I'm hoping for some advice/guidance on fitting the Phoenix Big Sound decoder to my Aster/LGB K 28. I have emailed Phoenix but they haven't responded at all to my emails.
My loco has two standard LGB motors, 5v stabilisation circuit and a decoder interface. I have seen the 55026 decoder interface cable is available and wondered if this is compatible with the Phoenix decoder as a 'plug and play' method of installation. I would prefer to keep my loco as original as possible, but realise this may not be the best option.
I am open to track power or battery R/C DCC

Any help gratefully received!

 

[PhilP]

Well, it should fit a Bachmann socket.. How 'standard' that is, though?

There may be a question mark, as to the current rating of this decoder. - But I could not find the specifications on the Phoenix site. Links to the knowledgebase do not work..

 

[Greg Elmassian]

?? Phoenix big sound never fit the socket, although they have a new decoder that fits the Aristo/Bachmann socket, but it's really wimpy on current handling.

Now, since the OP asked about an Aster/LGB K28, it for sure does not have the bachmann socket.

So, do you have an Original Big Sound unit? Or are you talking about the brand new one that fits a socket.

In any case I would use something different that does indeed plug into the LGB, I believe this loco either came with a decoder, or ESU / Massoth makes a nice plug and play.

Greg

 

[Alco K28]

Thanks for the info Greg, I would have been looking at the new Phoenix decoder.
I haven’t heard the sound quality of the Massoth or ESU ones, but would be happy to try it if they are a simple plug in with the lead
Do you know if they are suitable for R/C? Or purely track fed?

 

[Greg Elmassian]

I would think mostly track power for the plug and play. There's several very knowledgable people here who should be able to tell you what will plug right in.

 

[dunnyrail]

A year or three back I fitted a Phoenix Goose Railcar Unit into a Diesel Railcar with a Aristo Crest Battery Setup. The Crest Instructions had all the wiring I needed to do the installation on the CD. But as I have used a Crest the facility to Rev up the Engine is not available as it would have been had I used an Aircraft type of RC.

 

[PhilP]

A year or three back I fitted a Phoenix Goose Railcar Unit into a Diesel Railcar with a Aristo Crest Battery Setup. The Crest Instructions had all the wiring I needed to do the installation on the CD. But as I have used a Crest the facility to Rev up the Engine is not available as it would have been had I used an Aircraft type of RC.

That doesn't make sense Jon?

You have additional triggers you can use on the Revolution, and can configure the trigger inputs on the Phoenix unit to be anything you like. - Granted, you would need access to the Phoenix programming module to change this.

 

[PhilP]

Putting any DCC decoder into a loco you will be running analogue presents challenges:

If 'sound only', the loco motors will move at 2-3 volts, but the decoder electronics will not 'wake-up' until 5-6 volts. - You can be several feet down the track before you get sounds. Massoth used to do an Analogue Motor Controller, to overcome this, but haev dropped it from their range.

If you want to go 'conventional' RC, then although you have trigger outputs from the RC equipment, you are limited to the number of trigger inputs on the decoder , eg. Massoth, two, to trigger effects such as whistle.

If you go RC + DCC there are a number of options available:
Not all are legal in the UK.

 

[Alco K28]

Thanks for your input guys.
If I went for the R/C option without DCC, I'm guessing there would be automatic sounds on the decoders such as air pumps, brake application etc?
Am I correct to assume the Massoth or ESU DCC option, would plug in to my loco with the appropriate lead without further mods to the loco and have full functions if I went track powered?

 

[beavercreek]

I have the build diagrams for the Aster K28.
I installed an ESU sound decoder in the ashpan below the main circuit board. It works from the voltage and syncs very well to the rotation of the drivers.
The speaker is in the tender

Here is a link to a webpage detailing adding a Phoenix sound card to an Aster K28

K-28 Sound Install

 

[Alco K28]

I have the build diagrams for the Aster K28.
I installed an ESU sound decoder in the ashpan below the main circuit board. It works from the voltage and syncs very well to the rotation of the drivers.
The speaker is in the tender

Here is a link to a webpage detailing adding a Phoenix sound card to an Aster K28

K-28 Sound Install

Thanks Beavercreek,
I have seen this article, but wondered if I could have a decoder/sound fitted without the need for magnets to trigger the bell and whistle. Am I correct in assuming that the ESU decoder doesn’t require them? And I assume you are using track power? Does the decoder use the interface cable? If not where does one attach the wiring?
I have Lenz DCC equipment for my 0 gauge layout and presumably could use that as it is 5amp 24v, but do you guys have to add power boosters around your layout?
Many thanks again to everyone for their advice.
Richard

 

[beavercreek]

Thanks Beavercreek,
I have seen this article, but wondered if I could have a decoder/sound fitted without the need for magnets to trigger the bell and whistle. Am I correct in assuming that the ESU decoder doesn’t require them?

You can use magnets and reed switches to trigger the chuff if you wish, but the 'auto chuff'
on the decoder works fine without them

And I assume you are using track power?

Yes, for this loco and most of my others.. but for a few others, I use battery RC DCC.

Does the decoder use the interface cable? If not where does one attach the wiring?

The wiring attaches into the main circuit board

I have Lenz DCC equipment for my 0 gauge layout and presumably could use that as it is 5amp 24v, but do you guys have to add power boosters around your layout?

5 amps is sort of okay (preferably 10) for a small to medium layout where only two or three LGB locos are working at a time (with lights, possibly smoke and sound etc) . But if you have more powerful locos and have gradients and have a medium to largish layout then you will definitely need 10 to 12 amps to keep the headroom

 

[Alco K28]

Thanks for the additional info Beavercreek, I have sent you a pm

 

[beavercreek]

Thanks for the additional info Beavercreek, I have sent you a pm

Just to make certain..the decoder I refer to in the answer of where to attach the wiring, is a dcc sound (and motor and lights and smoke) decoder and it attaches to the main circuit board in the loco....a Phoenix sound card would go in the tender and only need to use the track feeds for its power and voltage information.
As the Phoenix board is DCC savvy it can work on analogue (DC) or DCC track power

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Yeah, that article is just adding the phoenix to the tender and irrespective of the motor, often in that case the motor can move before the sound.

A modern decoder fitted so that the motor comes from the decoder will have the sound start with the motor no matter if DC or DCC.... an earlier post implied that is not true.

In any case, I would suggest a DCC decoder installed "properly", i.e. the motor and lights run from the decoder. Then you run it in either DC or DCC mode no matter.

Greg

 

[dunnyrail]

That doesn't make sense Jon?

You have additional triggers you can use on the Revolution, and can configure the trigger inputs on the Phoenix unit to be anything you like. - Granted, you would need access to the Phoenix programming module to change this.

To be honest I never worried overmuch about the facility not being accesible. On a Plane / Car / Boat RC Radio one of the Sticks can do the reving Up actions. Not even sure how that would work on the Revolution so I live without it quite happily. Not sure that I want my Railcar to be sitting at a Station like a kid in a Golf GTI reving Up the Engine till the lights turn to green!

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Just clarifying, you said:
"But as I have used a Crest the facility to Rev up the Engine is not available as it would have been had I used an Aircraft type of RC. "

Which states (to most interpretations) that the Crest COULD NOT let you rev up the engine, whereas the actual situation is if you wanted to, you could have used the additional Crest function outputs as Philp states.

Not posting this to contradict you, but so that others reading this realize it is not a limitation in the Crest hardware.

Greg

 

[Alco K28]

You can use magnets and reed switches to trigger the chuff if you wish, but the 'auto chuff'
on the decoder works fine without them


Yes, for this loco and most of my others.. but for a few others, I use battery RC DCC.


The wiring attaches into the main circuit board



5 amps is sort of okay (preferably 10) for a small to medium layout where only two or three LGB locos are working at a time (with lights, possibly smoke and sound etc) . But if you have more powerful locos and have gradients and have a medium to largish layout then you will definitely need 10 to 12 amps to keep the headroom

Do you have a photo and or diagram of how the decoder is wired to the board? I'm still unclear as to wether the LGB interface cable can be used.
Thanks,
Richard

 

[Greg Elmassian]

I think to start is to get the wiring diagram that identifies the connectors and their functions.

Someone here surely has that.

Greg