LGB's new 'high end'* Shay IS 1/20.3 scale after all!

I did three of their Jackson-Sharpe passenger car conversions for a pal to take back to US with him. At around £300 for the conversion kit, plus £250 for the car, and about fifty hours careful and painstaking effort on my part, they were never going to be a money-spinner for RG.

They looked nice, but..............................Holeeeeeeeeeeeee etc.

Life was too short for me to do any more, and he took them, and three kits, back stateside when he left.
 
Bump.

I can't help but notice a marked lack of response from our phantom Shay builder and his four incredible models. Anybody heard from him?
 
There were commercially built models (from Japan and South Korea?) available in this scale sometime ago - several were for sale through the West Side forum group a while back (I didn't download images of them).

And for scratch-built accurate replicas of the West Side (locomotives, rolling stock and buildings) you probably cannot go past Bob Poli's Fn3 layout:

 
tac foley said:
Huzzah!!!

I just got a personalised message from Maerklin's spokeperson, advising me that in spite of LGB/Maerklin's rather fuzzy details - no mention of a scale, fer'instance - their brand-new 'high-end' model C-Class Shay IS actually in the more common and useful scale of 1/20.3 - Fn3 to the purists, and will there not only look right on 45mm gauge track, but will fit right in there among other rather more humble track-powered Shays in that scale.


Great news for some of us, no doubt, especially a Euro lottery winner.

*'high-end' is sales-talk for VERY expensive. However, I'd be very happy to watch an example bought by anybody on this forum as it runs around their track.
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Well as am owner of 7 well serviced and looked after shays I think 4000 is Rediculous
Sorry 8 including my latest Creation.
 

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paul delany said:
Well as am owner of 7 well serviced and looked after shays I think 4000 is Rediculous
Sorry 8 including my latest Creation.
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Now you're sounding like a certain person at my garden railway group who says "I've got (four/five/six - pick a number) of them" whenever I turn up with a new locomotive............ ;)
 
David Price said:
Now you're sounding like a certain person at my garden railway group who says "I've got (four/five/six - pick a number) of them" whenever I turn up with a new locomotive............ ;)
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There's always one. I have three - the original two-truck from 1998, a three-truck from around 2008 or so and an Accucraft 3-cylinder steamer - the first to be bought in this country.
 
I now have zilch, as I sold the Accy 3-cylinder Shay due to lack of use :oops: Was I just being lazy? At least someone else can use it and enjoy it :)
 
David Price said:
Now you're sounding like a certain person at my garden railway group who says "I've got (four/five/six - pick a number) of them" whenever I turn up with a new locomotive............ ;)
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To be honest I wasint gloting about owning so many shays ,my point was that in my opinion they were a great design with a few flaws but reliable if your fortunate to have access to a friend with a 3d printer for repairs ,I don't have big resources for buying expensive locos and I just felt 4000 euros a bit rich that's all.
 
Hi Paul,

My comment about the number of Shays you have was not meant to be a shot at you - I have three Bachmann 2-cylinder 2-truckers, a 3-cylinder 2-truck and a 3-cylinder 3-truck (Pacific Fast Mail brass) Shays in 1:48 as well as a 3-truck Backmann in Fn3 (so I'm only one Shay behind you...) ;)

Cannot have enough geared locomotives for my mind...........

Not disagreeing about the price of the LGB Shay however - are your Shays Bachmann products like my one below?

Shay & Mallet at AMRA.jpg

If so, I think they represent better value for money - but of course they are no longer available from Bachmann and the early two truck units in particular had serious issues with their drive trains/gearboxes.

The above unit was a wreck when bought from the US and required serious rebuilding to get it to run properly (rebuild included two new trucks and an engine unit) - it now has a Loksound 5XL decoder, CVP Airwire receiver and a LiIon battery that lasts all day (as does the Mallet on the upper level)

And is the jury is still out on whether the LGB Shay is actually 1:20.3, 1:22 or something else?
 
David Price said:
Hi Paul,

My comment about the number of Shays you have was not meant to be a shot at you - I have three Bachmann 2-cylinder 2-truckers, a 3-cylinder 2-truck and a 3-cylinder 3-truck (Pacific Fast Mail brass) Shays in 1:48 as well as a 3-truck Backmann in Fn3 (so I'm only one Shay behind you...) ;)

Cannot have enough geared locomotives for my mind...........

Not disagreeing about the price of the LGB Shay however - are your Shays Bachmann products like my one below?

View attachment 347502

If so, I think they represent better value for money - but of course they are no longer available from Bachmann and the early two truck units in particular had serious issues with their drive trains/gearboxes.

The above unit was a wreck when bought from the US and required serious rebuilding to get it to run properly (rebuild included two new trucks and an engine unit) - it now has a Loksound 5XL decoder, CVP Airwire receiver and a LiIon battery that lasts all day (as does the Mallet on the upper level)

And is the jury is still out on whether the LGB Shay is actually 1:20.3, 1:22 or something else?
Click to expand...

The jury is in. It IS 1:20.3 to match the Bachmann models.
 
Anyone lucky person able to put up a photo of the LGB " Westside" Shay next to/in line with a Bachmann 55 tonner?

Be interested to see the comparison given West Side's #7 (Lima #2465 of 1911) was one of the smaller three truck Shays at only 60 tons. I believe she's currently still under overhaul at Roaring Camp & Big Tree with a possible return to service this year?

(I only got to drive the "Dixiana" back in 2018 as the #7 was out of service back then)

I'm certainly not spending that amount of money for something that I would then have to pull apart and convert to battery power and radio control - even if it is beautifully built!
 
That loco is going to cost around AUS$10K by the time you get it. Good luck with that one.

Incidentally, LGB claim that it is a model of the ex-Sonora Logging/Roaring Camp loco - quote 'Locomotive No. 7 of the Roaring Camp & Big Trees Railroad, a class C Shay from 1911. It ran during its active forest railroad career on various timber companies in California. Since 1986 it has been the star on the Roaring Camp & Big Trees RR, an approximately five kilometer / 3 mile long line laid at some cost in the Henry Cowell Redwoods State Park 100 kilometers / 63 miles south of San Francisco'.
 
I was surprised how undervalued Bachmann's 1:20.3 US subjects have been. At least in the past. Yes, earlier models had problems with their transmissions and dodgy mazak castings (I only suffered it with one, it was one of their box cars, phew !). Possibly underdeveloped initially. But it made them very good value 2nd hand and as "close out" specials. The best bit was they were modelled, usually, on an existing preserved loco. Good source material. Ok the NG Baldwin 2-6-6-2 was only ever built as an SG and the Goose #1 was based on a replica. You just have to nail down the original they have used, they are all pretty much faithful to a prototype.

I get it that some feel they were overdetailed, resulting in a lack of robustness when run. Not fit for purpose, so to speak. However, I had been used to handling high detail 1:43 models for many years before getting into garden railways, goes with the territory.

I think I must have at least one of each of Bachmann's rodded and geared locos and stock they produced. Love every one of them, to run and to look at. They put a few high cost metal models in the shade, certainly in terms of value for money. But that's the benefit of volume production manufacturing techniqes, if done right. The high end stuff is aimed a people who concider them "investments" or want in some cases a live steamer, or both ! Don't worry I have few Accucraft items where I have, borderline, fallen into that trap. But then, they are all great models, which is my main criteria for buying. Max
 
tac foley said:
That loco is going to cost around AUS$10K by the time you get it. Good luck with that one.

Incidentally, LGB claim that it is a model of the ex-Sonora Logging/Roaring Camp loco - quote 'Locomotive No. 7 of the Roaring Camp & Big Trees Railroad, a class C Shay from 1911. It ran during its active forest railroad career on various timber companies in California. Since 1986 it has been the star on the Roaring Camp & Big Trees RR, an approximately five kilometer / 3 mile long line laid at some cost in the Henry Cowell Redwoods State Park 100 kilometers / 63 miles south of San Francisco'.
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Hi Tac,

I have no interest or intention of spending AUD$10K on an electric Shay no matter the detail - several guys on the Westside Forum have had brass 1:20.3 Westside Shays for sale in the last 18 months at lower prices than that.

I understand the #7 "Sonora" 3-trucker is still under repair with an expected return to service of this year - it has been out of service since at least 2018 when I drove the 2-truck "Dixiana" as an "engineer for a day".

With 3 owners since it was built in 1911 the #7 can rightly wear either the West Side or Roaring Camp liveries offered by LGB - Butte & Plumas #4, West Side Lumber #7, Roaring Camp #7 - three truck 60-ton Shay, Lima #2465 of 1911)

This is a view of the shed in 2018 - "Sonora" closest to camera, "Dixiana" in the middle and Heisler "Tolumne" at the far end - the Heisler was in steam the following day as she was going to replace the "Dixiana" in service while it had some tubes replaced:


_DJP6257.JPG

The little Baldwin 0-4-2 saddle tank "Kahuku" was tucked down behind the "Dixiana" at the very back of the shed.

Details of the locomotives on the roster can be found here: History of - Roaring Camp Railroads

They also have a two-truck Shay and a Climax out the back of the shed awaiting restoration - they are:

Ex-Elk & Little Kanawha / WM Ritter Lumber Company 2 truck Shay "Daisy" (Lima #2519 of 02/1912)

Ex-Elk River Coal & Lumber Co./Clinchfield Coal Company/WM Ritter Lumber Company/Carol Park & Western Railway 4’ gauge 50 ton Class B 2-truck Climax "Bloomsburg" (Climax Manufacturing Company #1692 of 1928)

The LGB model in its Madera Sugar Pine livery is also correct as their #5 was a 60 ton 3-trucker (Lima #2617 of 1912) - however both the Shays at Yosemite Mountain & Sugar Pine RR are ex-Westside engines - #15 (Lima 2645 of 1913) and #10 (Lima 3315 of 1928) with the latter being the largest narrow gauge Shay ever built:

West Side-8110.jpg

.
 
maxi-model said:
I was surprised how undervalued Bachmann's 1:20.3 US subjects have been. At least in the past. Yes, earlier models had problems with their transmissions and dodgy mazak castings (I only suffered it with one, it was one of their box cars, phew !). Possibly underdeveloped initially. But it made them very good value 2nd hand and as "close out" specials. The best bit was they were modelled, usually, on an existing preserved loco. Good source material. Ok the NG Baldwin 2-6-6-2 was only ever built as an SG and the Goose #1 was based on a replica. You just have to nail down the original they have used, they are all pretty much faithful to a prototype.

I get it that some feel they were overdetailed, resulting in a lack of robustness when run. Not fit for purpose, so to speak. However, I had been used to handling high detail 1:43 models for many years before getting into garden railways, goes with the territory.

I think I must have at least one of each of Bachmann's rodded and geared locos and stock they produced. Love every one of them, to run and to look at. They put a few high cost metal models in the shade, certainly in terms of value for money. But that's the benefit of volume production manufacturing techniqes, if done right. The high end stuff is aimed a people who concider them "investments" or want in some cases a live steamer, or both ! Don't worry I have few Accucraft items where I have, borderline, fallen into that trap. But then, they are all great models, which is my main criteria for buying. Max
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Hi Max.

I too have added Fn3 to my modelling (still working in 1:48 as well)

For handling I cannot recommend too highly to go down the path I have - making custom boxes which I can drive on and off (admittedly with battery power - slide on and off if only track powered).

Box in progress showing foam packing (anyone who owns one of these Shays knows you need three hands to pick it up!):

20240221_131022.jpg

Finished box closed up for transport:

20241219_113103.jpg

Locomotive ready to be driven off (box outer lifts off):

20241219_113156.jpg

Drive off/back on with an LGB re-railer - no broken bits through handling!!

20241219_113233.jpg

Material cost about AUD$50 -$75 a box - most expensive parts are the clips.

They are built out of cheap pine and ply and take two to three days to make (I've made three of varying sizes this week - one for a Bachmann Consolidation so I don't have to disconnect the tender, and two for small tank engines).

I've also built them for my live steamers - wooden boxes stand up to putting hot engines away better than the packing they came in!
 
David Price said:
Hi Paul,

My comment about the number of Shays you have was not meant to be a shot at you - I have three Bachmann 2-cylinder 2-truckers, a 3-cylinder 2-truck and a 3-cylinder 3-truck (Pacific Fast Mail brass) Shays in 1:48 as well as a 3-truck Backmann in Fn3 (so I'm only one Shay behind you...) ;)

Cannot have enough geared locomotives for my mind...........

Not disagreeing about the price of the LGB Shay however - are your Shays Bachmann products like my one below?

View attachment 347502

If so, I think they represent better value for money - but of course they are no longer available from Bachmann and the early two truck units in particular had serious issues with their drive trains/gearboxes.

The above unit was a wreck when bought from the US and required serious rebuilding to get it to run properly (rebuild included two new trucks and an engine unit) - it now has a Loksound 5XL decoder, CVP Airwire receiver and a LiIon battery that lasts all day (as does the Mallet on the upper level)

And is the jury is still out on whether the LGB Shay is actually 1:20.3, 1:22 or something else?
Click to expand...
Hi that's great I'm glad we understand each other yes indeed all bachmann.i finished off a 4 truck shay last year so I'm about done I have a soyrse for 3d printed motor truck chassis if you have any crumbled Ines that need rebuilding..
 
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