LGB's new 'high end'* Shay IS 1/20.3 scale after all!

Hobbyguy1 said:

Hi guys! I been following this thread as I’m kinda interested but the prices seem to be all over the place. I’ve been quoted $1000s of dollars USD apart, in the same day, and I’m just not willing to spend that much over retail. Anybody actually had a descent quote in the USA? Before May first it was around $3540.00 USD US tax included, now my latest quote is $5300.00 seems crazy and the retailer says this won’t even cover the tariffs! lol!

Anyways guys, the link above is a closeup all around the of the unpainted version, if you play it in slow motion you really can see all the detail! I’m glad I found this group, maybe I’ll get to see a video of one running someday. Cheers to all!
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Here is a little conundrum. So, right now, depending on when and where you ship and bring in to the US, the landed tarrif paid price of this product is all a bit of a lottery. Not a happy place to be if you are Märklin and US is the target market for sales. No dealer can make a commitment.

But what if you buy your LGB Shay from a dealer in a country with low/no tarrif for import of Chinese products of this value ; that also ony gets hit (at time of shipping) with the 10% baseline tariff that the US is supposedly now applying to any import there ?

It then comes down to what price that intermediary dealer agrees with the end buyer and the cost of shipping against the cost of direct import from China to the US. I await some very creative sales/shipping arrangements being made by Märklin to ensure sales of this product to the US.

But then the situation with import to the US with this up/down on again/off again tarrif may still make it all too much of a risk to any intermediary or buyer. Max
 
maxi-model said:
Here is a little conundrum. So, right now, depending on when and where you ship and bring in to the US, the landed tarrif paid price of this product is all a bit of a lottery. Not a happy place to be if you are Märklin and US is the target market for sales. No dealer can make a commitment.

But what if you buy your LGB Shay from a dealer in a country with low/no tarrif for import of Chinese products of this value ; that also ony gets hit (at time of shipping) with the 10% baseline tariff that the US is supposedly now applying to any import there ?

It then comes down to what price that intermediary dealer agrees with the end buyer and the cost of shipping against the cost of direct import from China to the US. I await some very creative sales/shipping arrangements being made by Märklin to ensure sales of this product to the US.

But then the situation with import to the US with this up/down on again/off again tarrif may still make it all too much of a risk to any intermediary or buyer. Max
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Must be great to live in a place where you have no idea of the cost of anything. I know that the price we pay here will be the same all over the UK, not that there are many dealers with the so-called 'high-end' LGB/Maerklin products for sale. Stap me if I'm wrong, but AFAIK, only GRS actually DOES this grade of LGB/Maerklin models in LGS's 'scales' or Maerklin's Gauge 1.
 
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There was a time where importing LGB from USA resulted in cheeper prices than from the EU but both cheeper than UK by a well than worthwhile margin, but time has moves on and things have changed.
 
tac foley said:
Must be great to live in a place where you have no idea of the cost of anything. I know that the price we pay here will be the same all over the UK, not that there are many dealers with the so-called 'high-end' LGB/Maerklin products for sale. Stap me if I'm wrong, but AFAIK, only GRS actually DOES this grade of LGB/Maerklin models in LGS's 'scales' or Maerklin's Gauge 1.
Click to expand...

Google "LGB Shay UK", Rails Sheffield and Wheelspin, Guagemaster, Chalk, etc' are taking pre-orders here. Was just thinking Märklin/Mearklin might be looking at more creative routes, without upsetting their US distribution, for this and other products to fix the volatile tariff situation before consumer confidence crumbles. Max
 
David,
The 12-ton Shay is actually a 7/8ths scale model. The locomotive represents a 2 Foot Gauge engine when running on 45MM track.
 
maxi-model said:
Here is a little conundrum. So, right now, depending on when and where you ship and bring in to the US, the landed tarrif paid price of this product is all a bit of a lottery. Not a happy place to be if you are Märklin and US is the target market for sales. No dealer can make a commitment.

But what if you buy your LGB Shay from a dealer in a country with low/no tarrif for import of Chinese products of this value ; that also ony gets hit (at time of shipping) with the 10% baseline tariff that the US is supposedly now applying to any import there ?

It then comes down to what price that intermediary dealer agrees with the end buyer and the cost of shipping against the cost of direct import from China to the US. I await some very creative sales/shipping arrangements being made by Märklin to ensure sales of this product to the US.

But then the situation with import to the US with this up/down on again/off again tarrif may still make it all too much of a risk to any intermediary or buyer. Max
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There is the great danger, to American buyers, that the smaller manufacturers of such items are going to say, s*d it, we won't bother, and the American hobbyists miss out. Similar to exporters from Europe to here
 
Europe is more the other way round (for small UK suppliers) there is no way we can cover the costs of complying with GPSR, so we have two choices..
Keep selling, with our fingers crossed, or say sorry we can't sell to you..

PhilP.
 
Charles M said:
David,
The 12-ton Shay is actually a 7/8ths scale model. The locomotive represents a 2 Foot Gauge engine when running on 45MM track.
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The Accucraft model 12-ton Shay is a real sweetie. Reading reports on MLS, especially from self-builders, it can be a bit of a pain to get running without sounding like an air-raid siren, but apart from that, it's a lovely model. One interesting tip was to put a washer between the burner body and the jet-holder - seems to work.

1747739009854.png
 
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Charles M said:
David,
The 12-ton Shay is actually a 7/8ths scale model. The locomotive represents a 2 Foot Gauge engine when running on 45MM track.
Click to expand...

So, does this manufacturer too have a problem with stating the correct scale for their product ? 13 ton Shay - Accucraft UK Ltd I was present when Alan Regan tested this model for 16 mm Today (SMT). I supplied the wagons, all from the Accucraft "link & pin" 1:20.3 "short car" range. They looked the part too. It's 1:20.3, it'll just about pass as 16 mm scale. That would be one tiny prototype loco if it is 7/8ths. The loco is aimed at taking in the 16 mm market as it is gauge adjustable 45/32 mm. I have seen a few of the larger 3 cylinder models (I have one 45mm) that have been regauged from their fixed 45mm to 32mm. The penny has dropped at Accucraft.

Modified Accucraft 3 cylinder Shay on 32 mm track. Climax built by Mike Chaney. Image taken at Butterley, lifted from 16 mm NGM site. Sorry could not access images of 13 ton SMT test with 1:20.3 consist. Max

WeeklyPhoto346_large-700x441.jpg
 
Charles M said:
David,
The 12-ton Shay is actually a 7/8ths scale model. The locomotive represents a 2 Foot Gauge engine when running on 45MM track.
Click to expand...
Not according to Argyle Locomotive Works and David Fletcher who was involved in the design - I was told in no uncertain terms it was not 7/8"scale when I pointed out the size discrepancies compared to a Bachmann "55 ton" Shay!!

Argyle's PDF brochure says 1:20.3 whilst in the same document David says it is 16mm to the foot!

And despite the brochure in the UK stating it is a straight boiler design and 1:20.3 scale ( 13 ton Shay - Accucraft UK Ltd) the model has a T boiler (hence the high cab) which is justifiable for steaming requirements in such a small engine but does not represent the Shays in Queensland of this size - please state the facts correctly!

I think it is a rather lovely little engine - just get frustrated when it is misrepresented in scale and prototype! (the Mapleton Shays were not T-Boilered for starters!)
 
tac foley said:
Must be great to live in a place where you have no idea of the cost of anything. I know that the price we pay here will be the same all over the UK, not that there are many dealers with the so-called 'high-end' LGB/Maerklin products for sale. Stap me if I'm wrong, but AFAIK, only GRS actually DOES this grade of LGB/Maerklin models in LGS's 'scales' or Maerklin's Gauge 1.
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Living in CA at the moment is frustrating. It is literally a coin toss of what’s it’s going to cost.

On another subject, found another better close up video, it shows both the painted and unpainted versions one after another. You have to fast forward the video to 29.00 minutes, play it in slow motion at 1080P resolution for best viewing of all the detail.

I’m throughly impressed it’ll all depend on the final price for me. I’m fairly new to G scale guys, does anyone know how this would compare to a Bachman? I know they are in different leagues but I’m wondering if it is truly worth the premium. I will be using it for display purposes only.

Cheers everyone!

 
Hobbyguy1 said:
Living in CA at the moment is frustrating. It is literally a coin toss of what’s it’s going to cost.

On another subject, found another better close up video, it shows both the painted and unpainted versions one after another. You have to fast forward the video to 29.00 minutes, play it in slow motion at 1080P resolution for best viewing of all the detail.

I’m throughly impressed it’ll all depend on the final price for me. I’m fairly new to G scale guys, does anyone know how this would compare to a Bachman? I know they are in different leagues but I’m wondering if it is truly worth the premium. I will be using it for display purposes only.

Cheers everyone!

Click to expand...

Well, Sir, if you are intending to run it, perhaps you can give it to me, and I'll put it on MY shelf with a webcam, so you can look at it whenever you want. $4000 for a static model seems a bit excessive, when you could still buy a Bachmann versions for less than $500, even now.

The Bachmann model, although drop-dead gorgeous, is just plastic, but with metal trucks. A number of us here, like me, have at least one of them, and some of us, like me, have ALL of Bachmann's so-called 'Spectrum' 1/20.3 scale geared locos which we run, suffering the occasional drop-off of bits. About ten years ago, after buying my Shay back in '99 from Red Caboose in Denver, I stumped up for new drive trucks. None of my other Bachmann geared locos have needed anything, except the 'secret' tweak to the Heisler drive-train. The ALL get run around - a lot.

Let's get one thing clear, LGB/Maerklin and Bachmann are not in 'leagues'. One company made a readily affordable mass-produced model that pleased, and continues to please, many model railroaders. The other company makes very limited numbers of expensive shelf-queens, most of which will never turn a wheel under power.

The first is what model railroading is all about - the second is what statues are all about.

'shore money.
 
David Price said:
Not according to Argyle Locomotive Works and David Fletcher who was involved in the design - I was told in no uncertain terms it was not 7/8"scale when I pointed out the size discrepancies compared to a Bachmann "55 ton" Shay!!

Argyle's PDF brochure says 1:20.3 whilst in the same document David says it is 16mm to the foot!

And despite the brochure in the UK stating it is a straight boiler design and 1:20.3 scale ( 13 ton Shay - Accucraft UK Ltd) the model has a T boiler (hence the high cab) which is justifiable for steaming requirements in such a small engine but does not represent the Shays in Queensland of this size - please state the facts correctly!

I think it is a rather lovely little engine - just get frustrated when it is misrepresented in scale and prototype! (the Mapleton Shays were not T-Boilered for starters!)
Click to expand...

Obviously I don't know the facts, just what I was told by Accucraft/Maxitrak here in UK at the show a short while back. Thanks for the correctment.

Of course, 1/20.3 and 16mm - aka 1/19th - are not a HUGE amount apart.
 
tac foley said:
Well, Sir, if you are intending to run it, perhaps you can give it to me, and I'll put it on MY shelf with a webcam, so you can look at it whenever you want. $4000 for a static model seems a bit excessive, when you could still buy a Bachmann versions for less than $500, even now.

The Bachmann model, although drop-dead gorgeous, is just plastic, but with metal trucks. A number of us here, like me, have at least one of them, and some of us, like me, have ALL of Bachmann's so-called 'Spectrum' 1/20.3 scale geared locos which we run, suffering the occasional drop-off of bits. About ten years ago, after buying my Shay back in '99 from Red Caboose in Denver, I stumped up for new drive trucks. None of my other Bachmann geared locos have needed anything, except the 'secret' tweak to the Heisler drive-train. The ALL get run around - a lot.

Let's get one thing clear, LGB/Maerklin and Bachmann are not in 'leagues'. One company made a readily affordable mass-produced model that pleased, and continues to please, many model railroaders. The other company makes very limited numbers of expensive shelf-queens, most of which will never turn a wheel under power.

The first is what model railroading is all about - the second is what statues are all about.

'shore money.
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My apologies if I offended you in any way, it was truly not my intention at all.

The Bachman model appears amazing as well, it would be nice to see them side by side.
 
Hobbyguy1 said:
My apologies if I offended you in any way, it was truly not my intention at all.

The Bachman model appears amazing as well, it would be nice to see them side by side.
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Not offended at all. As I said, if you send it to me or Max, we can put them side by side for your comparison. :)
 
tac foley said:
Max, I've read the magazine report, too, and can only admit to getting it wrong. Do you want blood?
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To paraphrase Goldfinger - "No Tac, I don't expect you to give blood. I expect you to give me the secret Heisler drivetrain tweak !" :D (Please)

Shays (& Climax & Heislers). Hours of debate. Don't you just love them ? Max

My Heisler - ESU DCC/Battery/Fosworks RC and Climax - Sierra Soundtraxx/Battery/RCS (Aus) RC. Just a little systems test.

 
Hobbyguy1 said:
My apologies if I offended you in any way, it was truly not my intention at all.

The Bachman model appears amazing as well, it would be nice to see them side by side.
Click to expand...

I 2nd all Tac has said. To my mind the Bachmann "Spectrum" range 1:20.3/Fn3 scale products cut it as well detailed and functional scale models of actual prtotypes. Tread wearily though with older examples, they tend to have transmission issues of some sort or another, rectified where 2nd issue releases were made. If you find yourself delving into the realms of older 2nd hand Bachman locos, and other garden railway kit the good Mr Schreyer's pages are well worth bookmarking. Yes, they may be have been written some 25 years ago but it all holds true to this day. All good basic advise. Large Scale Tech Tips Max
 
George's many, MANY pages are always well-worth a look. Given that Aristocraft is now gorn, and support for their products nigh-on gorn, too, his deep studies into the products are one of the two things that make life for older stuff worth experiencing - along with Greg Elmassian.

A word of warnment, though, if attempting to replace the old, flaky Bachmann trucks on the Shay - ALL the wiring on mine was black. I'm not saying it made the mods impossible, but it certainly didn't help.
 
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