LGB's new 'high end'* Shay IS 1/20.3 scale after all!

[tac foley]

Huzzah!!!

I just got a personalised message from Maerklin's spokeperson, advising me that in spite of LGB/Maerklin's rather fuzzy details - no mention of a scale, fer'instance - their brand-new 'high-end' model C-Class Shay IS actually in the more common and useful scale of 1/20.3 - Fn3 to the purists, and will there not only look right on 45mm gauge track, but will fit right in there among other rather more humble track-powered Shays in that scale.

Great news for some of us, no doubt, especially a Euro lottery winner.

*'high-end' is sales-talk for VERY expensive. However, I'd be very happy to watch an example bought by anybody on this forum as it runs around their track.

 

[PhilP]

So in his highly accurate model description, he says 1:22.5 twice...

It will be interesting to put one next to similar from another manufacturer.

I just checked, but don't have enough Euro's in my PayPal account.

PhilP.

 

[tac foley]

So in his highly accurate model description, he says 1:22.5 twice...

It will be interesting to put one next to similar from another manufacturer.

I just checked, but don't have enough Euro's in my PayPal account.

PhilP.

Quotatement -

@Waldbahner​

6 hours ago
I compared meassuerments of the pre-production sample with Al Armitage plans of #7 and the model turns out to be 1:20,3 scale.LGB itself referes to 1:22.5 LGB-scale, but the ruler and plans don't complain.

End of quotatement.

I'm happy to put one beside my $300 Bachmann model any day of the week. Aster's three-truck Shay of yore was a Western Maryland standard gauge model, so it's either Bachmann or nothing.

GRS is getting a few of 'em in, so they no doubt have a a few rich customers with four big ones to spend. Just like to be one of 'em, me.

 

[maxi-model]

In the brochure Matt at GRS pressed into my hands a month ago (I was visiting the Chinnor and Princes Risborough railway, for an aborted Class 37 cab ride) it looks beautiful, but stated as 1:22.5. However I think I'll stick with my Bachmann 3 truck, see below, bought for £275 (landed) new 18 years ago from the good Mr Kramer in the US. I have a two truck too, bought 2nd hand £300, with battery/RC/ESU DCC sound, picked up in prefect nick 5 years ago.......from here. I wonder what mark up GRS will add to the LGB ? Max

 

[stevedenver]

Wow, it looks like an amazing locomotive. The fact that it’s all metal, and can be handled without bits and pieces falling off, like my Bachman shays, is also very attractive. I understand that it wasn’t a final production model, but the exhaust to my ear was definitely four beats not three.

I’m no expert on Shay‘s, but I think he got quite a bit of information wrong about the A,B, C class locomotives. And, which bunker carries what.

At about $4500 US, I think it’s a fair value. The only thing that gives me great hesitation with buying LGB Locomotives of $2000 or more, is my perception that spare parts are far more difficult to obtain. (This has been the case with any number of the saxon model locos. )

I imagine too, that this exclusive model is not weatherproof. having fiddle with my Bachman three truck Shay, with its non-finger friendly connection plugs, (also not weatherproof), it’s a bit of a pain to have to“run and hide“ every time the sky might open.

Very cool. I don’t think I’ll be buying one.

 

[tac foley]

I'd just like to stress that it IS, in fact, 1:20.3, as I noted in my post #3 above.

However, it will be £3950.

 

[Rhinochugger]

However, it will be £3950.

Irrespective of the scale, one has to ask whether that amount of money is realistic - just saying

 

[tac foley]

Irrespective of the scale, one has to ask whether that amount of money is realistic - just saying

Given that GRS is overwhelmed with orders for their new £6000 Beyer-Garratt, I'd say that less than four grand for a complex model like that is not off the cards. You've seen how 'cheap' it is in USA, landed, a country where although there are different levels of sales tax for each state, there is no instant 20% VAT like there is here.

Whinemeal, I'm still more than happy with my $300 three-truck Bachmann version, a couple of two-truck and an Accucraft 3-cylinder live steamer.

 

[stevedenver]

Indeed. The bachmann shays, especially the 3 truck , are superb, and were, inconceivably inexpensive only a few years back. There are still some at $599, still jaw dropping, given the mechanical complexity, if not robust construction.

Its making the moloco buffalo class A (2 cylinder) shay at $2k look a lot more appealing. (Not the same quality or features as the new maerklin offering by a long shot.)
Just what i need.

Personally, as freakishly odd as it sounds, i would like a feldbahn sized shay, ‘ala Gilpin Tramway Co., a Colorado 2 ft line. The type of adorable teapot, like chloe and olomano, perfect for a compact g scale mining layout. When pigs fly, i know….

 

[tac foley]

Indeed. The bachmann shays, especially the 3 truck , are superb, and were, inconceivably inexpensive only a few years back. There are still some at $599, still jaw dropping, given the mechanical complexity, if not robust construction.

Its making the moloco buffalo class A (2 cylinder) shay at $2k look a lot more appealing. (Not the same quality or features as the new maerklin offering by a long shot.)
Just what i need.

Personally, as freakishly odd as it sounds, i would like a feldbahn sized shay, ‘ala Gilpin Tramway Co., a Colorado 2 ft line. The type of adorable teapot, like chloe and olomano, perfect for a compact g scale mining layout. When pigs fly, i know….

I bought three of the Bachmann 3-truck shays for $900. I kept the Oregon Lumber unit for myself, and sold the other two for a thousand each, and laffed all the way home.

I like your idea of a teeny Shay, although I'd like to see a model with just a single cylinder, for a laff. If you wanted teeny shay, I'm sure that our genius builder, Peter Angus, would view your idea with great favour! However, it will be a steamer, not a sparkie like your choice. V. cute, though, and given the very small production run, something of a bargain even at $2K.

 

[stevedenver]

I might have bought more, as i too bought mine for 299. But, as much as i enjoy my bachmann locos and the incredible detail, imho, they are always a pita. I have c-19s, climaxs, 36 and 55 t shays, and 2 gorgeous moguls with the improved gear box. Almost inevitably, something comes on loose or snaps, or I have to get down at eye level to figure out how to connect the tender to the Loco. As my layout is outside, I never leave these logos outside overnight.

Worse still, is the fact that replacement parts from Bachman are not available, and when they were, they had a crew of morons working in the warehouse. I am generally a generous fellow, but after several personal phone calls trying to get parts. it’s just amazing how wrong people can get things even with a description and a diagram.

I have had latches and brake hoses and journal box lids and classification lights simply drop off despite extreme care in unpacking them and transporting them from storage box to my layout. Needless to say these critical and irreplaceable bits sometimes require an hour of carefully eyeballing the route to my layout, and right of way in order to find the little buggers. Obviously I have a real love-hate with these Bachman products. They’re gorgeous. the ones I have run really well, especially when properly lubricated and on a perfectly clean and very level right of way. on the other hand, compared to LGB, which I simply grab put on the track and not worry about anything they are a mental burden lol.

 

[maxi-model]

Given that GRS is overwhelmed with orders for their new £6000 Beyer-Garratt, I'd say that less than four grand for a complex model like that is not off the cards. You've seen how 'cheap' it is in USA, landed, a country where although there are different levels of sales tax for each state, there is no instant 20% VAT like there is here.

Whinemeal, I'm still more than happy with my $300 three-truck Bachmann version, a couple of two-truck and an Accucraft 3-cylinder live steamer.

Tac, to my mind there is a world of difference between the 16 mm scale 32/45 mm gauged "Colonial" live steam Garratt market and that of the 15 mm, dedicated 45 mm gauge, US electric (or even live steam) "logging" one. Never mind accepted price points. Yes, they do intersect at times, like possibly with you and me. But then my tastes can tend to be a bit eclectic. That and the fact that LGB are not really known for NG stuff outside of their (sometimes somewhat nominal) 1:22.5 scale. Never mind printing (erroneously it would seem) that scale in the brochure, not clever. That might have a cooling effect on sales.....except perhaps the diehard LGB collector and those checking the forums. Can't remember, is the Aster brand, as in the past, involved on this one to increase the "collector" buy-in ? Rashly I binned the brochure to check (but would Accucraft even allow that now come to think of it ?).

And then there is the little matter of dear Herr Trumpf und his new fangled tarrifs, and however long that farrago goes on for. Is this loco built in the EU or somewhere in the vicinity of China ? Whichever, whoever imports them to the US is going to have to get the delivery scheduling just right or there might be the risk of a reverse Boeing situation going on. The last I read there is a 90 day limit on what has recently been agreed with that nice Mr Xi and the Orange one is not too well disposed towards the EU. Bit volatile. Better hope a strong market in the Gulf states opens up soon. At least the have the money sloshing around. Then again Märklin might be panic dumping some stock in the not too distant future (I wish )
Max

 

[Software Tools]

Tac, to my mind there is a world of difference between the 16 mm scale 32/45 mm gauged "Colonial" live steam Garratt market and that of the 15 mm,

It's aimed at what is clearly the "collector" market, and there is just not a world of difference in that market. The rarity/uniqueness/collcetable-durability of a model is what matters and this strongly one ticks all the boxes.

 

[tac foley]

Tac, to my mind there is a world of difference between the 16 mm scale 32/45 mm gauged "Colonial" live steam Garratt market and that of the 15 mm, dedicated 45 mm gauge, US electric (or even live steam) "logging" one. Never mind accepted price points. Yes, they do intersect at times, like possibly with you and me. But then my tastes can tend to be a bit eclectic. That and the fact that LGB are not really known for NG stuff outside of their (sometimes somewhat nominal) 1:22.5 scale. Never mind printing (erroneously it would seem) that scale in the brochure, not clever. That might have a cooling effect on sales.....except perhaps the diehard LGB collector and those checking the forums. Can't remember, is the Aster brand, as in the past, involved on this one to increase the "collector" buy-in ? Rashly I binned the brochure to check (but would Accucraft even allow that now come to think of it ?).

And then there is the little matter of dear Herr Trumpf und his new fangled tarrifs, and however long that farrago goes on for. Is this loco built in the EU or somewhere in the vicinity of China ? Whichever, whoever imports them to the US is going to have to get the delivery scheduling just right or there might be the risk of a reverse Boeing situation going on. The last I read there is a 90 day limit on what has recently been agreed with that nice Mr Xi and the Orange one is not too well disposed towards the EU. Bit volatile. Better hope a strong market in the Gulf states opens up soon. At least the have the money sloshing around. Then again Märklin might be panic dumping some stock in the not too distant future (I wish )
Max

Aster have nothing whatsoever to do with this model. In fact, Aster got their fingers badly burned - partnership-wise, in the fiasco with the White Pass Mike, in which, as you know, Aster made the bodies and LGB the power units. They MIGHT just have put their oar back in the water with the Harz 2-10-2, and certainly the lovely NGG13m perhaps even Saxon Mallet.

This model, however, is made by the Chinese factory that turns out the latest of the LGB super-models, like the self-propelled RhB snow plow and the wacky-looking tram thing. Aster were never in the running for HPDC - high-pressure die casting - a Maerklin speciality since just post-war. This model seems to have a ton of it, and although saod to include lots of lost wax castings as well, seems oddly crude where handrails are concerned. The four beat three-cylinder engine sounds very off to me, but then, I'm never going to be in the market for one of these models.

 

[Hobbyguy1]

Aster have nothing whatsoever to do with this model. In fact, Aster got their fingers badly burned - partnership-wise, in the fiasco with the White Pass Mike, in which, as you know, Aster made the bodies and LHB the wiggly bits.. They MIGHT just have put their oar back in the water with the Harz 2-10-2, and certainly the lovely NGG13m perhaps even Saxon Mallet.

This model, however, is made by the Chinese factory that turns out the latest of the LGB super-models, like the self-propelled RhB snow plow and the wacky-looking tram thing. Aster were never in the running for HPDC - high-pressure die casting - a Maerklin speciality since just post-war. This model seems to have a ton of it, and although saod to include lots of lost wax castings as well, seems oddly crude where handrails are concerned. The four beat three-cylinder engine sounds very off to me, but then, I'm never going to be in the market for one of these models.

Hi guys! I been following this thread as I’m kinda interested but the prices seem to be all over the place. I’ve been quoted $1000s of dollars USD apart, in the same day, and I’m just not willing to spend that much over retail. Anybody actually had a descent quote in the USA? Before May first it was around $3540.00 USD US tax included, now my latest quote is $5300.00 seems crazy and the retailer says this won’t even cover the tariffs! lol!

Anyways guys, the link above is a closeup all around the of the unpainted version, if you play it in slow motion you really can see all the detail! I’m glad I found this group, maybe I’ll get to see a video of one running someday. Cheers to all!

 

[Paul M]

Such a shame it will be painted!

 

[Rhinochugger]

, or I have to get down at eye level to figure out how to connect the tender to the Loco. As my layout is outside, I never leave these logos outside overnight.

I have loco cradles for my C-19 and my two Connies, and I installed a short spur where I can run the loco into the cradle without disconnecting the cables. Life has been far simpler as a result

 

[David Price]

I have to say I'm fascinated how anyone can be bothered lifting locos in and out of the manufacturer's packaging - regardless of whether you have a home track (which I don't) or not.

My first foray into this scale was a 3-truck Bachmann Shay which needs three hands to handle if you are getting it in and out of the Bachmann packaging (I've posted images of the finished unit elsewhere on the forum).

I made the decision early on that I would make up a box that would sit on the track so I could drive the engine on and off (I don't use track power - CVP Airwire battery power with ESU 5XL decoders).

This is the box for the Shay under construction (the Shay is obviously not finished at this point):



The bottom section is routed to slot over a straight section of 45mm track and routed on top to track gauge whilst the top lifts off leaving the loco ready to drive off - as seen here with a Bachmann Mallet:



With an LGB rerailer the Shay, Mallet or any other battery powered loco can be driven onto the track or back onto the base board:



This method minimises handling and means you don't have to connect/disconnect tenders, wiring looms etc.

I recently watched someone separately lift a Bachmann 2-6-0 and its tender vertically out of a box he had built (with some difficulty) and then had to connect the loco and tender - I've got several tender locos that will be converted to battery power in the not to distant future and will be adopting the same approach I've taken previously.

This technique can be used for track powered locos as well & I've made up boards for rakes of link & pin wagons that enable me to roll them onto the track.

Only boxes I've made so far that are not like this are for small live steamers that can be picked up easily like this one for a Roundhouse Davenport:



As I only run at railways away from home the effort of making the boxes is really worth the effort - and I haven't broken a bit off the Bachmann locos in all my travels!

 

[David Price]

And to start another conversation - you tell me what readers think the scale the Accucraft "12 Ton" Shay actually is (seen here on the same track as my Bachmann "55 Ton" Shay):



Argyle Locomotive Works PDF brochure lists it as Fn3 (1:20.3) whilst David Fletcher's notes in the same document indicates 16mm scale (1:19.5).

Pretty big for a 12 ton Shay either way if the Bachmann 55 ton version is even close to prototype (and the Mapleton Shays were not T-boilered but I can understand why the live steam version was done this way to give it extra boiler capacity...)

NB: the current version does not have any form of "super heating" (despite what the brochure says) so the steam is very cool by the time it gets to the cylinders....

Apparently the next release may have this if it can be fitted into the flue tube.

 

[David Price]

Huzzah!!!

I just got a personalised message from Maerklin's spokeperson, advising me that in spite of LGB/Maerklin's rather fuzzy details - no mention of a scale, fer'instance - their brand-new 'high-end' model C-Class Shay IS actually in the more common and useful scale of 1/20.3 - Fn3 to the purists, and will there not only look right on 45mm gauge track, but will fit right in there among other rather more humble track-powered Shays in that scale.

Great news for some of us, no doubt, especially a Euro lottery winner.

*'high-end' is sales-talk for VERY expensive. However, I'd be very happy to watch an example bought by anybody on this forum as it runs around their track.

Lack of research clearly shows here.

2-cylinder Shays (Class A) were built as two truck units (with a very small number of three truck units), three-cylinder two truckers were class B's, three truckers were Class C's and four truckers were Class D's !

Suggest LGB go back and do their homework and read authoritative reference sources if they are going to permit a Youtube review such as this.

And the preliminary sound is rubbish!!

Try listening to an ESU sound file for a three truck Shay from their download site or a Soundtraxx Light Steam Shay sound file - both of which are pretty close to the real thing (having been at Roaring Camp and driven the Dixiana I am appalled at the sound on the YouTube clip ).

Suggest anyone seriously interested in Shays read The Shay Locomotive: Titan of the Timber by Michael Koch or visit this site:

Shay History Site

NB: I would be interested to see one of these LGB units side by side with the Bachmann "55 Ton" Shay - details on Roaring Camp's Sonora can be found here: sn-2465

At 105,600lb (US52 Tons) Sonora (Shop Number #2465) was considered small amongst the West Side Lumber Co. Shays and if truly Fn3 (1:20.3 ) should be slightly smaller than the Bachmann "55 Ton" 3-truck Shay.................

Then again I am told LGB can be pretty rubbery with scale?