LGB Motor Service

M

musicancars

I'm New, Please Be Gentle
20 Mar 2015
9
0
new jersey
#21
i just finished working on the locomotive motor and to my surprise i got it working again to. in both cases on both the loco and the tender there was quite a bit of corrosion on the commutator and the brush holders. once cleaned up it ran. this is a pleasant surprise and bonus since i thought it would become a parts engine as i bought the bought the set just for the rolling stock (a bobber caboose , the low side gondola and the tender that i had planned to gut and repaint to match another engine i had). so now i have gained another engine. whoo hooo! the problem had been i didn't know how to remove the brush holders to get to the commutator. but with the step by step photos it made it easy. thank you again tfor a great tip!
 
M

musicancars

I'm New, Please Be Gentle
20 Mar 2015
9
0
new jersey
#22
i just wanted to report that the weather in nj finally cleared up enough to test both the engine and the powered tender and that after a slight bit of hesitation both the tender and the engine each ran independently one at a time verrry well. so thanks to this artical these units are back in service and being used as parts units. thnks again for a great artical the step by step photos really helped!
 
OBBherr

OBBherr

Registered
17 Aug 2016
5
0
64
Hampshire, UK
#23
I am in the process of re-commissioning the garden layout after a layoff of a number of years.

Having re-laid the track and electrics, it's time to get the locomotives out of the boxes and test. I am running all LGB stock with MTS with a version 3 MTS-Central .

While most run OK I have two problems in particular:

1. The Weimar tram (21355) will only move in short jerks
2. The Murtalbahn U-Series (2070D; vintage c. 1986) is reluctant to start but runs OK once moving

I have read through the stickies and other motor maintenance threads but am well behind the curve in understanding some of the issues. Frankly I have neglected the maintenance side of things in the past because everything simply ran out of the box.

I would be grateful if someone could take a few minutes to summarise:

1. What points I should look out for in general in bringing all the locos back into service; so far I only have the general advice to lubricate axles and rods externally;
2. What points I need to think about in terms of the older (20 year +) locos; gearbox grease has been mentioned but I am not clear in what context or what to do about it;
3. Any known problem areas that may lead to the issues above.

I apologise if the above points have been covered elsewhere; I have looked (honestly) but frankly I have as a maintenance/repair newbie I am struggling.

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help.
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
21,237
2,454
Tamworth, Staffs.
#24
It may well be just a little dirt and corrosion on wheel etc. ..

Clean the track you are testing on.. Couple of drops of smoke-oil / WD40 (less is more) on a cloth, and wipe track. - Get rid of the muck.

Clean the tyres / flanges on the stock. - Fine steel-wool is good for this.

Clean the backs of the wheels, where carbon brushes rub. - Don't go too mad here!

Make sure you have wiped away muck and any fine strands of steel-wool.

Lubricate sparingly, smoke-oil is adequate for this.. Motor-oils / steam-oil / '3-in-1' is not good.

If you can (not all will) try to rotate the wheels by hand.. This might well be quite hard to do. - You are looking for very tight spots, which need further investigation.

Check the traction tyre (where fitted) has not come off and wrapped round the axle / motion. - This can stall the loco, and you can burn the motor out!

If applicable, check quartering. - Has an axle 'jumped a tooth'? - This will cause the motion to lock-up.

Then try again..
Sometimes a loco will benefit from 'running-in'.. A few minutes running forwards, then the same backwards.. You can do this on rollers if you have some. - Do NOT leave the engine unattended!

I would not 'attack' motors, unless there is a real problem, or current consumption is high.
HTH
PhilP.
 
Neil Robinson

Neil Robinson

Registered
24 Oct 2009
9,206
520
N W Leicestershire
#25
I'd like to add one thing to Phil's advice. Check the carbon brush springs are working O.K. If you don't want to remove the wheels and/or power unit baseplates I suggest pushing each wheel set sideways to the limits of its side play and observing the movement of the carbons
 
stockers

stockers

Trains, aircraft, models, walking, beer, travel
Staff member
GSC Moderator
24 Oct 2009
25,278
3,609
60
Nr. Ashford, Kent. England.
#26
Smoke oil wont last long at all as a lubricant. it will completely evaporate.
 
#27
OBBherr

OBBherr

Registered
17 Aug 2016
5
0
64
Hampshire, UK
#28
Thanks to all for your contributions. The magazine article was an eye opener for me as I hadn't realised that re-greasing the gearbox was a maintenance item.

In view of the different experiences with oil lubricants (smoke oil v. others, see above) would it be best to stick to the Massoth oil, as LGB don't seem to offer oil any more? Is there a viable commercial alternative (bearing in mind PhilP's warning above?

Finally how does one check the current draw? I have a multi-meter with the relevant range but can't envisage how to apply it to a moving loco and I don't have a rolling road.
 
a98087

a98087

Registered
8 Nov 2009
1,480
132
31
Wiltshire
#29
For the current draw, just use either a length of track set up a testing track or your layout.

Just connect the meter in series with the motor and make the loco move to see what reading you get

Dan
 
stockers

stockers

Trains, aircraft, models, walking, beer, travel
Staff member
GSC Moderator
24 Oct 2009
25,278
3,609
60
Nr. Ashford, Kent. England.
#30
I hadn't realised that re-greasing the gearbox was a maintenance item.
Go very steady with re-greasing the gear box. A tiny wipe in to the teeth is more than enough. Too much grease gets in the motor brush box and kills the motor!
If you use as much as the size of a pea, you have used far too much.
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
21,237
2,454
Tamworth, Staffs.
#31
Unless the loco is very old, you may need to redistribute a little of the existing grease.. Remove any that is discoloured, or obviously has detritus in it.
Old grease may dry out, or the 'oil' component may split from the grease a little.. I tend to clean this up, as it attracts dirt and grit. it also gets on fingers and clothes, if you are not careful.

As Alan says, 'less is more'.. There is a kit of oils and greases from the Bachmann Woodland Scenics range.. A little pricey, but will be more than enough for most (if not all) of your garden railway needs.
'Hob-E-Lube HL650'
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
13,499
3,127
70
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
#32
One of the things that is apparent re-reading this thread is Contamination by Smoke Fluid. Now I know it is nice to have Smoking Locomotives but is it really worth the risk? The new Big Smoke units that take plenty of flluid, Chuff and do Draincocks are again all very nice. But I still worry about leaks. The other week with guests I did try to get my Trainline Locs Smoking with no success. Whatever happened to the Fluid I put in? Is it lurking around inside and did it Contaminate my Motors? Perhaps time will tell.

So now I have made the decision to NEVER USE SMOKE UNITS AGAIN. All that fluid I have will now only be used for Cleaning the Backs of Loco Wheels to stop that iritating Squeek. I am not suggesting that you follow me, just telling you my decision.

In the meantime when my Roundtoit appears I will be attempting to fix a couple of Dead LGB Motors using the superb advice from this thread. Pity the Pics are lost though.
JonD
 
Neil Robinson

Neil Robinson

Registered
24 Oct 2009
9,206
520
N W Leicestershire
#34
One of the things that is apparent re-reading this thread is Contamination by Smoke Fluid. Now I know it is nice to have Smoking Locomotives but is it really worth the risk? The new Big Smoke units that take plenty of flluid, Chuff and do Draincocks are again all very nice. But I still worry about leaks.
JonD
I am beginning to suspect that smoke fluid leakage isn't always due to overfilling or other accidents. I think it may occur no matter how carefully the filling is performed. My guess is some of the vapour condenses back into liquid inside the chimney. This may cause problems if the smoke unit tip isn't at the top of the chimney.
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
13,499
3,127
70
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
#36
I am beginning to suspect that smoke fluid leakage isn't always due to overfilling or other accidents. I think it may occur no matter how carefully the filling is performed. My guess is some of the vapour condenses back into liquid inside the chimney. This may cause problems if the smoke unit tip isn't at the top of the chimney.
Hm looks like my concept is a good route to take. No doubters as yet.
JonD
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
21,237
2,454
Tamworth, Staffs.
#37
Whilst any thin oil will 'creep', and smoke-oil has gravity to assist..
It is a long way from most smoke units to the inside of a motor-block!

If you regularly run with smoke, then if transporting your loco's, I would suggest emptying out any excess smoke-oil. Either use the pipette (when it is cool!), or just invert the loco, with the front end slightly downhill, and give it a gentle shake.. If there is a chance the loco will be travelling on its' side, then a twist of tissue in the top of the chimney will stop any oil dribbling over the smokebox.