LGB Motor Service

F

facade

Registered
25 Aug 2011
72
0
#1
I recently acquired another mallet, and discovered that the front motor was taking 3 amps, which was overloading my transformer.
Checking the threads here, this is because the front motor is full of smoke oil, so I ordered a new motor, but I thought I would have a go at the old one in the meantime.
First I had the brake cleaner to it (note: wear glasses, I managed to get it to splash in my eye) made no difference.

So, with nothing to lose, I took it apart. Naturally, I photographed it afterwards, rather than during, so it is all nice and clean.
First there is a plastic collar that pulls off
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Then the two brush holders will come out sideways if you use a screwdriver
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The brush holders will clean up with the brake cleaner.
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I used my fibreglass pencil to clean the end of the brushes.
The commutator will polish with a thin piece of flour grade glass paper wrapped around whilst twizzling the shaft. Then, most important, clean the gunge from between the segments using your scalpel blade.
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Reassembly is the reverse of disassembly, as Haynes says. The black brush holder is on the side of the motor stamped buhler.

I reckon that the oil mixes with the carbon from the brushes, and forms a conductive paste between the segments.
Anyway, the motor spins with 0.1amp out of the truck, and when re-assembled, the bogie takes 0.2 amps.

The engine is zooming round on about 0.6amp with a couple of wagons, so I pronounce it a fix!
I wonder how long it will last??
 
stevedenver

stevedenver

Registered
24 Oct 2009
5,269
89
#2
having done the very same to a water damaged 2017 -it should last-and running seems to only improve so far in my case-did the very same thing, but failed to know that i should scrape the commutator seams

i also used a sparing amount of electrical lube on the commutator, and a drop of oil on the shaft ends-and worked the brush plungers as these do hang up sometimes
 
Gizzy

Gizzy

Railways, Aviation, Caravanning....
26 Oct 2009
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Cambridgeshire
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#3
Excellent step by step guide to repairing LGB motors....
 
whatlep

whatlep

Registered
24 Oct 2009
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Worcestershire
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#4
Brilliant thread and exactly what I needed today!
Have 5 stars and a whole lot of thanks. :clap:
 
Neil Robinson

Neil Robinson

Registered
24 Oct 2009
9,195
187
N W Leicestershire
#5
Further info, including dealing with later 'can' motors may be found in the thread below.


https://www.gscalecentral.net/electric-locomotives-trams/lgb-motor-repair-and-testing/
 
F

facade

Registered
25 Aug 2011
72
0
#6
Cheers Neil,

I knew I couldn't be the first to dismantle one, your thread is quite comprehensive.
Seems the key is to clear out the slots in the commutator, as I suspected.
I couldn't see any reason for the high current draw except a commutator short, the motor spun freely enough, and the windings looked perfect, I've seen windings turn black when they cook.
I did add a single drop of oil to each shaft bearing, but didn't add electrolube to the commutator as I thought the brushes should be self lubricatiing.

Martin
 
ntpntpntp

ntpntpntp

Registered
24 Oct 2009
7,182
122
55
UK
#7
Yep, it's often possible to sort out motors with a little TLC as has been explained. It can be very satisfying to restore something to good health that seemed to be on it's death-bed. I've had success with motors from G scale right down to Z gauge when doing a stint as "Loco Doctor" at my old club's annual exhibition. Trickiest thing I remember tackling was resoldering the coil wires to the commutator on an N gauge motor - not fun but it worked!

I'd recommend using something like a wooden cocktail stick or sharpened matchstick rather than a scalpel blade to clean the commutator segment gaps, to avoid risk of slipping and scratching the surface. A matchstick is also good for cleaning the commutator surface it you cannot get in with a fibreglass pen.

Personally I'd avoid using anything like electrolube on the commutator as so often I've found carbon brushes to be degraded where they've absorbed oil. My standard service treatment is to remove the brushes and roll them in some kitchen paper. I check and adjust the springs for tension. If a motor has been running hot it can sometimes destroy the tension. Clean out the brush holders. Clean and maybe re-profile the end of the brushes before refitting. Apply bare minimum of oil to the motor bearings then run the motor at medium speed for a minute or so to allow the refitted brushes to bed in, you can see less sparking and hear smoother running as everything settles.
 
F

facade

Registered
25 Aug 2011
72
0
#8
My new motor came, but it isn't the right one, or at least it is too big!

The engine is a unitah mallet, the instructions say motor 62201.
I measured it as 91mm from one end of the shaft to the other, the one I have received is 120mm from one end of the shaft to the other.

Have I ordered the wrong one, or have they sent the wrong one?
 
stockers

stockers

Trains, aircraft, models, walking, beer, travel
Staff member
GSC Moderator
24 Oct 2009
25,273
432
60
Nr. Ashford, Kent. England.
#9
62201 is the standard motor. You may have the longer motor (from the Rugens 8 wheeler) which is the similar code 62210
 
F

facade

Registered
25 Aug 2011
72
0
#10
Spot on! The packet has got 62210 on it!
The invoice has 62201 so I got it right.

Thanks,

Martin
 
whatlep

whatlep

Registered
24 Oct 2009
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Worcestershire
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#11
55.5 said:
Does this mean you dont need a motor now?
whatlep said:
Brilliant thread and exactly what I needed today!
Alas, my motor is the "can" type and beyond my workshop's resources to fix. So back to square one.... :crying:
 
F

facade

Registered
25 Aug 2011
72
0
#12
If you follow Neils link in post #5, he shows how to dismantle a can type motor, basically, support the cog and warm it all round with your little cooks blowlamp, whereupon it expands and the motor falls out.

With a little careful screwdriver prising and tag bending then the endcap with brushes will come out. Reassembly is awkward, but it doesn't work now, so you have nothing to lose.
 
stevedenver

stevedenver

Registered
24 Oct 2009
5,269
89
#13
a follow up
i found that the electrical lube i use-
leaves a thin anti oxidation film-great for pots and jack inputs
not so great for commutator and brushes, as the fine dust build up intto a greasy thickish film
i re-did my motor removing the rather deep grey film, this time cleaning the commutator ring and thoroughly removing all lube
had to do this when the motors began to slow down-also found the brush springs were rusted trhough-and replaced with a jury rigged tiny spring to do the job
 
N

Niels

as long as it;s not boring
9 Dec 2011
93
0
Hengstdijk
#14
I have the same locomotive, And have had the same problem, leaking smoke oil dripping on the forward engine,
in my case the motor started to smoke in stead of the smoke generator, by the time I noticed and pressed the emergency stop,
(I had to find the ............. dimax first) the motor wasn't in need of any help anymore
When ordering buhler motors for LGB there are usally two option the short shank and the long shank, there are only a few lgb models
which have different motors
regarding lubrication and or maintenance fluids be very scars in the use of them when I have motors wich make a little noise I usualy
apply a few drops of WD40 with a thin piece of messing rod.

rgds Niels
 
V

van5

Talyllyn Railway. I of M, Old Land Rovers
24 Jan 2010
169
2
Great Barr, Birmingham
#15
:thumbdown: I successfully stripped a failed motor but broke the brushes at some stage. I am told that replacement brushes are not available. Be very,very careful, I now have a useless motor.
 
Neil Robinson

Neil Robinson

Registered
24 Oct 2009
9,195
187
N W Leicestershire
#16
van5 said:
:thumbdown: I successfully stripped a failed motor but broke the brushes at some stage. I am told that replacement brushes are not available. Be very,very careful, I now have a useless motor.
Champex-Linden list spare brush assemblies (their part number CL30317) for the older type motor.
See towards the bottom of this web page. http://www.champex-linden.de/cl_pr_lgb_ersatzteile_2.htm < Link To http://www.champex-linden..._lgb_ersatzteile_2.htm
Chalk Garden Rail http://www.chalkgardenrail.co.uk/acatalog/index.html < Link To http://www.chalkgardenrai...uk/acatalog/index.html are U.K. agents for Champex Linden
If needs be I think it would be possible to remove the brush holders with brushes from these by bending the securing tabs and fix them to the later style motors.
I doubt it would be practical to replace the carbon brushes whilst keeping the original holders. The braid tails on the brushes need to be electrically connected to the holders. If you tried soldering the braid would wick the solder rending the brush tail inflexible.
 
M

mitchell coe

Registered
25 Sep 2010
71
0
#18
Re:LGB New Motors and brushes

OK where can I obtain brushes for LGB short shaft motors part number62201, or the best place to buy new motors, can anyone of you more knowledgeable people help me please, many thanks Mitchell
 
D

Dan

Registered
28 Jan 2010
154
13
Eastern MA
#19
Another issue with a motor is a bad armature connection to the commutator.
This is a crimped enameled wire connection.
I took an exacto knife and scraped a bit of enamel off near the crimp and soldered the wire to the crimp.
Motor has been working for over 4 years now.
 
M

musicancars

I'm New, Please Be Gentle
20 Mar 2015
9
0
new jersey
#20
this was a GREAT how to article! i just bought a used 2117d with motorized tender which both motors had water damage. i was going to strip out the tender motor then i read your article. wow, so far the tender motor runs again. a pleasant surprise. and yes carbon brushes are supposed to run dry on the commutator.