LGB MFX Decoder CV Help?

palmerston

palmerston

trains
24 Oct 2009
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0
Netherlands, near Aachen ;-)
Someone created the template for their own use, and (I think) it got offered on here??
It is not a 'commercially' created / distributed template, to my knowledge..
Indeed, the post is blank, deleted and the pages arend on FB anymore.
 
John S

John S

Registered
5 Nov 2017
507
33
Exeter, Devon, UK
With reference to LGB Models fitted with a LGB 55028 mfx/DC/DCC decoder, could I impose on individuals to provide the Model Numbers of the Loco's owned, so that I may locate the relevant manuals and check the CV's for each model, this will help with producing version(s) of the Decoder Template for use with the latest Massoth Service Tool program.

Screenshots below of the latest work in progress working copy of said template.

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palmerston

palmerston

trains
24 Oct 2009
501
0
Netherlands, near Aachen ;-)
LGB 20480 Saxon VIk (Manual not online for download)
LGB 23591 KöF 6001
 
John S

John S

Registered
5 Nov 2017
507
33
Exeter, Devon, UK
This is how the template looks for the LGB23591, copy sent to your email address.

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John S

John S

Registered
5 Nov 2017
507
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Exeter, Devon, UK
Template for the 20480 sent via email.

Noticed a slight discrepancy with CV60, manual says by default it's 46, if you add up the various combinations, setting it to 48 makes more sense, perhaps you could do a READ on CV60?.
 
idlemarvel

idlemarvel

Registered
13 Jul 2015
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On my 20480 the value is 46. CV60 is to do with station announcements? This is a bit mode value.
I think 46 means there are 14 stations (first 4 bits) and changing the loco direction changes the sequence (bit 5 counting from 0). As far as I can tell this CV makes no difference as there don't seem to be any station names recorded on the supplied chip. Maybe there is a facility to add some.
 
John S

John S

Registered
5 Nov 2017
507
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Exeter, Devon, UK
Working on the template for the Function Mapping, balance between what to include and easy to read, working with what is available from within the Massoth Service Tool program itself.

From the printed table, easiest way to read it, is like a crossword Down & Across,
Group A LV to AUX6,
Group B ABV to Sound 4,
Group C Sound 5 to Sound 12,
Group D Sound 13 to Sound 16.

F1 is in this case AUX1, CV262 & CV362, on in both directions.
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LGB333

LGB333

Active Member
You can program them with your Massoth equipment..
BUT,
It is not a Massoth decoder, so things are not where 'we' expect, and certain 'nice to have' features on the Massoth, do not work because of this.
Case in point being changing the address:
The 'change address' feature on the Massoth system, changes more than just the address 'value', this is why it fails to a MFX decoder.. As long as you are aware of this, and change the individual CV's, then no problem.

I think it is more a case of it being 'different', having a lot more features (though Massoth are catching up, a little), so things are not where we expect them to be.

We are all so familiar with the way we have 'always' done it, change is hard. :think:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I've read on the Marklin Website that their Mfx decoder has three technologies embedded: Mfx; DCC; and Analog. Mfx is not NMRA DCC protocol compliant, and that's why Marklin recommends to "turn off" the Analog settings to prevent potential conflicts. Conversely, I've also read someplace, don't remember where, that we USA DCC users should turn off the mfx protocols. I'm getting my repaired LGB 27443 50th Anniversary RhB Railway GE 4/4 Electric Locomotive back from the Germany store I bought it........the front Pantagram didn't work and they sent it to Marklin for repair. Does anyone know what CVs to set to turn off the mfx elements of the decoder so only DCC activates?
 
idlemarvel

idlemarvel

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It's CV 50 ("alternative formats"). Setting it to zero will make it "pure DCC". If you want analog DC as well as an alternative set it to value 2.
 
Zerogee

Zerogee

Clencher's Bogleman
25 Oct 2009
16,380
0
North Essex
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I've read on the Marklin Website that their Mfx decoder has three technologies embedded: Mfx; DCC; and Analog. Mfx is not NMRA DCC protocol compliant, and that's why Marklin recommends to "turn off" the Analog settings to prevent potential conflicts. Conversely, I've also read someplace, don't remember where, that we USA DCC users should turn off the mfx protocols. I'm getting my repaired LGB 27443 50th Anniversary RhB Railway GE 4/4 Electric Locomotive back from the Germany store I bought it........the front Pantagram didn't work and they sent it to Marklin for repair. Does anyone know what CVs to set to turn off the mfx elements of the decoder so only DCC activates?
The MFX decoders have a "heirarchy" of protocols, they first look for an MFX signal, if they don't find one then they look for a DCC signal, if they don't find that either then they will default to analogue. Deactivating one or more of those options via CV50, as Dave says above, will stop the decoder looking for that protocol and thus reduce the risk of any hassles or confusion. If you're not going to want to use it with an MFX central station, then yes, it is a good idea to turn off the MFX option so that the decoder looks for regular DCC in the first instance. You can turn off analogue too if you wish, and if you're not planning to run the loco on an analogue layout.

It has been discovered, mainly through trial and error plus a lot of discussions on this and other forums, that the "trick" to changing the loco address on DCC with a new MFX decoder is to first run the loco briefly on your DCC system using the factory default address 3, this will "tell" the decoder to expect DCC commands rather than MFX ones; THEN you can change the loco address, which is best done simply by rewriting CV1 to the desired new address number - using the preprogrammed "change loco address" function on (for example) a Massoth Dimax system will most likely give you some problems with an MFX decoder, because that method also rewrites some other CVs as well as CV1.

I was rather wary of the new MFX decoders at first, having heard various tales of problems people had with adjusting them, but after setting up my Saxon VIk 0-10-0 very successfully (I run Massoth DCC) I can attest that they are not as scary as some people say!

Jon.
 
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John S

John S

Registered
5 Nov 2017
507
33
Exeter, Devon, UK
Another piece of the Function Mapping puzzle completed, only one more page to go....
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John S

John S

Registered
5 Nov 2017
507
33
Exeter, Devon, UK
Had some spare time to kill, preparations and operation sequences completed for the two layouts for the Christmas Fayre, sitting and idly watching the third layout that is part of a Shop Window display going through it's various automatic sequences, had a play with the Switch Outputs of the LGB 55028 Decoder.

The Special Effects are primarily designed to work with LED's, although LGB Lamps/Bulbs also work just as well.

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John S

John S

Registered
5 Nov 2017
507
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Exeter, Devon, UK
Master Decoder Template for the LGB 55028 Decoder now completed, tested, checked, proofread (I hope, gone number blind!) 6 pages and 260 CV's later......now just simple matter to clone it to the relevant LGB Model.

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Zerogee

Zerogee

Clencher's Bogleman
25 Oct 2009
16,380
0
North Essex
This is "all Geek to me", but looks like a great job of work, John! :D

Jon.
 
John S

John S

Registered
5 Nov 2017
507
33
Exeter, Devon, UK
The "cloned" Decoder Template for an LGB 23591 has been emailed, await comments!
 
John S

John S

Registered
5 Nov 2017
507
33
Exeter, Devon, UK
Another "cloned copy" this time for the LGB 20480 has be sent via email, await comments!
 
John S

John S

Registered
5 Nov 2017
507
33
Exeter, Devon, UK
Another "cloned copy" this one is for the LGB 21985 model.
 
LGB333

LGB333

Active Member
I really appreciate all the valuable info. I sure am learning a lot and I hope others are too. It is sure nice for you all to share your experiences with it. You sure are a wonderful group to chat with. I have been playing and learning the LGB & Massoth decoders for the last 5 years and I am still learning. I am very excited to finally have the confidence to start trying to learn programming the MFX. Just an FYI, my equipment is a Massoth Navigator paired to a Piko Central Station.
A few more point's about the Marklin mfx decoder technology. Researching their Website data and a couple LGB/Marklin Owners Instructions indicates the Marklin mfx decoders installed in their LGB locomotives are designed with three electrical technologies: mfx; dcc; and dc. Marklin states there can be operating conflicts between these three, therefore some (if not all) of their locos, like the LGB 28443 RhB LGB 50th Anniversary edition, are shipped from the factory with the Analog sound turned off, to help prevent operating conflicts with the mfx and/or dcc modes. In fact, the Marklin literature suggests not activating any of the Analog mode CVs if you only operate in mfx or dcc power. I also recently bought an LGB 20274 Heidi RhB steamer from a Germany LGB shop and the Owners Instructions also states the sound is deactivated for DC powered operations but the CV setting can be changed to activate. But I've gotten mixed responses from various large scale forums whether DCC equipment, such as my Massoth system, can activate the CV for DC sound on these decoders or not, or whether you must use Marklin's CS3 Central Station to do it. LGB's USA rep told me a Marklin system is required to do it. I haven't found anyone that's said they have been able to do it with DCC system. Since I only use a DCC power it's not an issue for me, but since 80% of USA hobbyist still use only DC powered layouts, it is for them.

My final point is that I read on one of the four large scale forums I belong to that it's recommended to "turn off" the mfx functions on a locomotive if one uses a DCC system, to help prevent CV programming conflicts between the decoder's three different technologies...….makes sense to me. For example, some guidance from my new LGB 20274 loco's Owner's Instructions states: "Digital Operations: The decoders are multi-protocol and can be used under the following protocol: mfx or DCC. The digital protocol with the most possibilities is the highest order digital protocol. The sequence in descending order is: Priority 1: mfx; Priority 2: DCC; Priority 3: DC. Note: Digital protocols can influence each other. For trouble-free operation, we recommend deactivating those digital protocols not needed by using CV50." To deactivate the mfx functions and only use the DCC features on the decoder the Owner's Instructions CV Tables indicate: CV50 Alternative Formats: Bit 1: Analog DC; Range 0/2. Bit 3: mfx off/on; Range 0/8. Default = 10.

But so far I've run the Heidi steamer on my Massoth system with no operational or sound problems, and it does have a pulse smoke unit including a smoke exhaust hole of the bottom of each piston...….works great. I think the problem may be when you try to change these decoder CV settings with DCC equipment while the mfx technology is still active. So, as long as I don't encounter any operating problems with these two LGB/Marklin locos with the mfx decoders installed, I may just leave the factory settings "as is" using the sage advice from a quality management guru, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"!
 
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palmerston

palmerston

trains
24 Oct 2009
501
0
Netherlands, near Aachen ;-)
Well i do like the sound of my VIk but the HF130C sound is just bad IMHO. I think its of a chaindriven DH instead a DM with connectingrods. Maybe fit an ESU L sometime where ESU is the ODM of mfx.
 
idlemarvel

idlemarvel

Registered
13 Jul 2015
1,520
40
Ascot
A few more point's about the Marklin mfx decoder technology. Researching their Website data and a couple LGB/Marklin Owners Instructions indicates the Marklin mfx decoders installed in their LGB locomotives are designed with three electrical technologies: mfx; dcc; and dc. Marklin states there can be operating conflicts between these three, therefore some (if not all) of their locos, like the LGB 28443 RhB LGB 50th Anniversary edition, are shipped from the factory with the Analog sound turned off, to help prevent operating conflicts with the mfx and/or dcc modes. In fact, the Marklin literature suggests not activating any of the Analog mode CVs if you only operate in mfx or dcc power. I also recently bought an LGB 20274 Heidi RhB steamer from a Germany LGB shop and the Owners Instructions also states the sound is deactivated for DC powered operations but the CV setting can be changed to activate. But I've gotten mixed responses from various large scale forums whether DCC equipment, such as my Massoth system, can activate the CV for DC sound on these decoders or not, or whether you must use Marklin's CS3 Central Station to do it. LGB's USA rep told me a Marklin system is required to do it. I haven't found anyone that's said they have been able to do it with DCC system. Since I only use a DCC power it's not an issue for me, but since 80% of USA hobbyist still use only DC powered layouts, it is for them.

My final point is that I read on one of the four large scale forums I belong to that it's recommended to "turn off" the mfx functions on a locomotive if one uses a DCC system, to help prevent CV programming conflicts between the decoder's three different technologies...….makes sense to me. For example, some guidance from my new LGB 20274 loco's Owner's Instructions states: "Digital Operations: The decoders are multi-protocol and can be used under the following protocol: mfx or DCC. The digital protocol with the most possibilities is the highest order digital protocol. The sequence in descending order is: Priority 1: mfx; Priority 2: DCC; Priority 3: DC. Note: Digital protocols can influence each other. For trouble-free operation, we recommend deactivating those digital protocols not needed by using CV50." To deactivate the mfx functions and only use the DCC features on the decoder the Owner's Instructions CV Tables indicate: CV50 Alternative Formats: Bit 1: Analog DC; Range 0/2. Bit 3: mfx off/on; Range 0/8. Default = 10.

But so far I've run the Heidi steamer on my Massoth system with no operational or sound problems, and it does have a pulse smoke unit including a smoke exhaust hole of the bottom of each piston...….works great. I think the problem may be when you try to change these decoder CV settings with DCC equipment while the mfx technology is still active. So, as long as I don't encounter any operating problems with these two LGB/Marklin locos with the mfx decoders installed, I may just leave the factory settings "as is" using the sage advice from a quality management guru, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"!
I can't see why you couldn't change those CVs to have "sound under DC" with any DCC command station. Let me have a go.