LGB Fully automated alternating station circuit wiring

[Derailed]

Hello all. First time posting. Did a search but didn't find an answer.
I've been collecting LGB for years but finally have space for a semi-permanent layout around my patio. I am currently running one train on a big loop. I want run both engines at the same time. I would like to set up a fully automated station circuit on a siding. I want the trains to move into the open siding, stop, activate the semaphores and both turnouts in the correct direction, and have the other engine pull out and repeat. For now, I want both engines running in the same direction. I am running analog at the moment but do have an old LGB MTS controller. It is just more cumbersome than I want to use right now.
Can anyone point me to a wiring diagram to set this up? I have found instructions to do each item but not all together and they all show being hooked up to a control panel. I cannot find anything online that fits the bill.
Equipment I have: All LGB. I have two sets of American semaphores kits, two electric R3 turnouts, several 17100 sensors, and both engines have the 17010 trip magnets. The insulated track blocks are about 8' long if that matters (too long?).
Must I use a control box? I want the trains to be fully automated so I can sit and drink and not do anything but watch.

 

[dunnyrail]

Hello all. First time posting. Did a search but didn't find an answer.
I've been collecting LGB for years but finally have space for a semi-permanent layout around my patio. I am currently running one train on a big loop. I want run both engines at the same time. I would like to set up a fully automated station circuit on a siding. I want the trains to move into the open siding, stop, activate the semaphores and both turnouts in the correct direction, and have the other engine pull out and repeat. For now, I want both engines running in the same direction. I am running analog at the moment but do have an old LGB MTS controller. It is just more cumbersome than I want to use right now.
Can anyone point me to a wiring diagram to set this up? I have found instructions to do each item but not all together and they all show being hooked up to a control panel. I cannot find anything online that fits the bill.
Equipment I have: All LGB. I have two sets of American semaphores kits, two electric R3 turnouts, several 17100 sensors, and both engines have the 17010 trip magnets. The insulated track blocks are about 8' long if that matters (too long?).
Must I use a control box? I want the trains to be fully automated so I can sit and drink and not do anything but watch.

This is probably all achievable by the use of LGB EPL equipment except I am not sure about the delay factor, somewhere In the Forum is a link to the online version LGB Book ‘Explore the world of LGB’ Which explains a great deal of what you want. In the meantime to whet your appetite here is a Vid of a little Line that I have made up using EPL Products. All Non Digital. The next stage on this had I moved forward with it would have been alternate Point Changing then with one Train going the other way. All possible.

Note also that there are ways to get Auto Running with Massoth (as one I know about) in some way. But never explored that though I believe that some in this forum May have.

This setup was taken to a Friends Garden Party and ran all afternoon completely untouched by me.

 

[Derailed]

Thank you. Yes, I want it to be like that but have the train go into the unoccupied siding.

 

[Dan]

To get the LGB book just do a google search for LGB 559 pdf Soft copy has all but the MTS chapter and that chapter was for the old MTS I serial only.

 

[Derailed]

Thank you. I have everything sorted except for the points. I cannot get them to switch automatically. I will try uploading this book and see if I have them wired wrong.

 

[korm kormsen]

here you'll find the LGB manual.

http://kormsen.info/lgb-manual.pdf

what you seek is in the chapter "taking control"

 

[Software Tools]

The diagrams below should give you most of what you need to do it with EPL. You will need to add the signals and delay timer, if you need them. From LGB-INFORMATION 0026 N

 

[Derailed]

Thank you all. I got it sorted. I need two more track contacts to switch the turnout behind the train to the opposite track. I didn't realize the contacts could only do one thing. So you need three contacts on each track to make this work. One to flip the turnout behind the train to the other side, one to activate the other side's semaphore and turn on track power, and one to activate the incoming train's semaphore and turn off track power. I am going to keep the front turnout on manual for now.

 

[dunnyrail]

Thank you all. I got it sorted. I need two more track contacts to switch the turnout behind the train to the opposite track. I didn't realize the contacts could only do one thing. So you need three contacts on each track to make this work. One to flip the turnout behind the train to the other side, one to activate the other side's semaphore and turn on track power, and one to activate the incoming train's semaphore and turn off track power. I am going to keep the front turnout on manual for now.

Hm that is sort or right and sort of not. As you say in your penultimate sentance ‘activate semaphore and turn off track power’ that is two things though with the Signal you can have a Switch to Operate 2 things. Each of the 1201 Add On Switches has 2 SPCO Switches thus in certain circumstances 2 things can be worked. Though of corse for reverting Track Power both Contacts would be required.

EPL does take some time to get one’s head around. I was well into it when playing about with it prior to moving in 2012 but have not touched it since then. I was planning to use it on a High Line in my Front Sitting Room but that project has not moved beyond a Paper Track Plan till now.

 

[curtis]

I'm sorry to bring this thread back from the dead but it seemed better than starting another post for it.

The one thing I've always wondered with the analogue approach to this are there any risks to the locos/motors to cutting/ramping the power-up at the flick of a switch. I don't usually run locos at high speeds but was curious about how the motors react to being given bursts of power to accelerate.

 

[dunnyrail]

I'm sorry to bring this thread back from the dead but it seemed better than starting another post for it.

The one thing I've always wondered with the analogue approach to this are there any risks to the locos/motors to cutting/ramping the power-up at the flick of a switch. I don't usually run locos at high speeds but was curious about how the motors react to being given bursts of power to accelerate.

Well my auto layout in the vid was operating at the party from 1300 to around midnight with no issues. Also you see auto reverse setups in shoos that run day in day out with LGB, I picked a Stainz up that was from such a shop, the wheels were trashed from the amount of running but the motor was just fine.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Sudden starts and stops are proven to increase drivetrain wear and failures. Soft start and stop helps minimize wear. Also the length of the train (number of cars) is a factor.

If you don't have the soft start/stop feature, then run the locos a lot slower.

Greg

 

[PhilP]

Although it seems a little 'vicious', and probably offends us 'purists', these loco's were designed as 'toys', so to take some abuse..

Those that have been running in shops, can be really worn, but still manage to run. Cruel!

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Agreed, that is why I said increase wear, not "it will break"... In our local club, there are 2 members that have/had businesses with the "autoreversers", and "auto station stop" boxes for basic layout automation. They both have added slow start and stop because of excessive wear reported by their customers. That's 10 years and more of experience each, so I listen to them, especially when it mirrors my lesser experience.

Greg

 

[curtis]

Thanks for all the great responses. I guess LGB list it in their documentation so it can't be terrible but definitely options for improvement - be that for aesthetics or longevity!

I had a look in another thread on a similar topic of slowing the locos. Dan made this point that I may explore:

Instead of using a diode, I used a 4 ohm 2 watt resistor. No direction issues and train does a smooth acceleration due to current being limited and the fast stop is now a slow stop. Been operating for over 10 years. Also I only use LGB engines as they tend to 'roll' to a stop, not slam like others with gears locking. Try to turn engine wheel by hand, LGB is easy, others are impossible. Best free rolling is the LGB mogul.

The way I have the tracks wired would make this implementation straightforward. Adding a resistor to the feed to the isolating track will give me the ability to slow the loco as it enters this track, trigger the track contact and stop. Similarly, the feed switches to the opposing track that is also resisted allowing a slower start before it steps up to normal track power when coming out of the block.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Use diodes, not resistors, less heat and more consistent with different loads/locos

 

[curtis]

Use diodes, not resistors, less heat and more consistent with different loads/locos

Ah, interesting tip. I suppose I'd wire the diodes in parallel (but opposing directions). This would have the impact of allowing bidirectional loco movements with the 'slowness'.

Do you have any reading/advice on diodes for garden railways? Interested to get an understanding of what I need to purchase

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Sure, I know this web site : (look on the page under voltage dropper, it works in both directions with fewer diodes)

Misc. electronics

Greg Elmassian web site on large scale trains and garden railroads, cigars, and computers

elmassian.com

 

[curtis]

I knew I must have overlooked something on that site! Thanks, Greg. I'll let you know how I get on.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

You "adjust" the number of diodes in the "center" for the drop you want. More compact and easier to "tweak" than 2 separate "strings" of diodes in parallel.

Greg