LGB DUO SYSTEM SHUNTING LOCOMOTIVE QUESTION
- Thread starter Madman
- Start date
Greg Elmassian
Guest
Looking at the manual, the system is triggered from slow reverse to 0 to slow forwards (or vice versa)... not sure you could simulate that with any controller available now, not to mention what it would do with PWM...
Have to find someone who tried it...
Greg
Have to find someone who tried it...
Greg
In theory yes, but as ever it depends on what you are talking about. So long as the battery supply is taking over the place of feeding in to the circuit as if it was from the track and the voltage is sufficient I cannot see why not.
I have converted a few DCC locomotives with 12-14 volts and all the functions work just fine. However I do not have any auto uncouplers and remove smokers as they will reduce running time.
Greg Elmassian
Guest
Look at the manual how it works, you will see that most controllers might have a problem simulating the power sequence required, and also again it is questionable that PWM would not have issues. The system is designed to work on DC.
Have you used one of these, and operated the uncoupler?
I read the manual and sequence to operate...
Greg
Have you used one of these, and operated the uncoupler?
I read the manual and sequence to operate...
Greg
Gizzy
A gentleman, a scholar, and a railway modeller....
I have one that I brought from Zerogee. It's the red one, which were originally sold by LGB as DC, but unusually this one was sold as DCC fitted, and as such is quite rare. It operates the same way as the later blue DCC version.
I had mine upgraded with sound so I could use it on Hardyard for shunting. I ran it only last week after re-addressing and it works very well. Lots of nice uncoupling noises when F1 operated, and the engine sound is fab-u-lous!
The chassis is much more realistic than an earlier yellow KoF I once owned, having balance weights on the drive rods and overall, a much better looking loco. LGB obviously had a basic drive train for the more basic version (such as the Harlequin) as well as the more detailed chassis for the 'Top of the Line' model.
So to answer Dan's question, I guess this could be done using batteries, as the original LGB 21900 was designed to run on DC with an LGB controller....
Madman
Registered
Thanks for all your replies. I use G Scale Graphics Railboss modules. If that sheds any more light on the type of power I use, I would be happy to hear further comments.
The receiver
The transmitter
The battery conversion module
The receiver
The transmitter
RailBoss 4 / TrackSide R/C Transmitter - Standard 4ATX
Custom Vinyl Lettering and Electronics for Garden Railroading
www.gscalegraphics.net
The battery conversion module
BCM - Floor Mount for Tender
Custom Vinyl Lettering and Electronics for Garden Railroading
www.gscalegraphics.net
Greg Elmassian
Guest
I explained it twice, and it's not registering... The operation seems to rely on a smooth transition from - voltage to zero and continuing on to plus voltage. ... most units cannot do this, the direction is separately controllable.. also again the PWM from your remote has been ignored...
The GSG controller is indeed pwm... and you don't have a "shunting mode" type of throttle... try it, following the instructions and see if the couplers go...
Maybe people lost sight of the request for the couplers to operate?
The GSG controller is indeed pwm... and you don't have a "shunting mode" type of throttle... try it, following the instructions and see if the couplers go...
Maybe people lost sight of the request for the couplers to operate?
JimmyB
Now retired - trains and fishing
Greg, I don't have one of these locos, but are confused by your statement, this is my controller, and can go from forward to reverse via zero without without hesitation with inertia set to zero:
Greg Elmassian
Guest
Yes, you are using an RF throttle... you are right that they exist... you are correct.
His hardware does not do that I believe... he posted what he has.
jimmy, can you smoothly go from slow forwards, to zero and to slow reverse without any "hesitation" in the output (sorry, cannot describe it better)
you probably have the closest to what the LGB manual asks for...
still the PWM issue has not been addressed.... LGB uses an analog DC supply as an example....
Greg
His hardware does not do that I believe... he posted what he has.
jimmy, can you smoothly go from slow forwards, to zero and to slow reverse without any "hesitation" in the output (sorry, cannot describe it better)
you probably have the closest to what the LGB manual asks for...
still the PWM issue has not been addressed.... LGB uses an analog DC supply as an example....
Greg
I am with Greg on this one..
I wonder if the Duo loco would work on 'address 0' stretched DCC? - This would be similar to a PWM signal.
And yes, the Micron (& Co), in fact most, RC systems are PWM, so may not work as expected.
Dan, a short length of track, fed with the output of your G Scale Graphics receiver, would answer the question.
But as Greg states, and I understand the Rail Boss works, you have a separate control for direction, to speed?
PhilP
I wonder if the Duo loco would work on 'address 0' stretched DCC? - This would be similar to a PWM signal.
And yes, the Micron (& Co), in fact most, RC systems are PWM, so may not work as expected.
Dan, a short length of track, fed with the output of your G Scale Graphics receiver, would answer the question.
But as Greg states, and I understand the Rail Boss works, you have a separate control for direction, to speed?
PhilP
Madman
Registered
If I understand your question, there are three buttons on the transmitter. One for throttling up, one for throttling down and the third is to change direction. The direction button will not work if the throttle is not at full stop.
And speaking of PWM, I seem to recall questioning Del Tapparo, owner of G Scale Graphics, about PWM and LGB motors. To be honest I cannot recall the conversations but he assured me that he took LGB motors into account when he designed his systems.
Greg Elmassian
Guest
OK, neither thing is the point...
it's the electronics that operates the couplers, like you asked. I explained it several times... and also suggested you try it, and PhilP gave you a suggestion on how you try it easily.
Greg
it's the electronics that operates the couplers, like you asked. I explained it several times... and also suggested you try it, and PhilP gave you a suggestion on how you try it easily.
Greg
Madman
Registered
Yes, but unlike some who are well versed in electronics, I don't have the interest. If I can come upon one of these locos at a reasonable price, I may simply dive in and see if I float.
Greg Elmassian
Guest
So you don't even own the loco? No wonder you did not try it out.... maybe let us know next time you are considering buying one?
Madman
Registered
Well Greg, the one I was considering and ordered took some time in arriving. My original query was to get knowledgable opinions before i pulled the trigger. Even if i wasn't considering purchasing one, don't you think that asking questions may just help someone else ?
With all due respect, Greg, though you are a very knowledgable guy and have benefitted from it, now and then you come across on this and other forums, a bit on the sarcastic side.
Madman
Registered
So the DUO loco arrived this afternoon. I tested it with an LGB transformer and it works perfectly. However, when I powered it using a Li-On battery and my G Scale Graphics Railboss Plus module, the couplers work but the loco will not move.
Since I run battery power exclusively in my garden railway, I may simply build a small switching layout with track power to run this loco. That is unless someone has an idea of how to operate it via battery power.
Since I run battery power exclusively in my garden railway, I may simply build a small switching layout with track power to run this loco. That is unless someone has an idea of how to operate it via battery power.
Master of understatement.
stevedenver
Registered
I have a couple of the dc versions.
they are excellent, and take a bit of practice, but will crawl nicely…
these locos have a voltage ‘threshold’ for
1 dropping the coupler, extending coupler ‘tongue’ , yellow roof lantern, then red, ive not measured, but id estimate 3-5v from memory.
2 engaging the loco motor, yellow lantern, red off, about 7-8v, coupler will still be dropped
3 raising the the coupler, estimated 10v, lanterns off- this important to note, in case the coupler doesnt raise.
fwiw, yellow lantern indicates ‘within coupler operating range’
red is coupler engaged/dropped loop tongue extended
off indicates no coupler drop
The loco needs higher voltage/ speed, for the coupler to raise. So if you slow, stop, uncouple, and slowly move off, the coupler wont raise until youre running somewhat faster.
these have a significantly higher voltage threshold for movement compared to almost all other lgb locos, except those with the old ‘switching’ circuitry (i think this was designated HEV??another high voltage threshold for movement,..allowed a larger loco like my Hrz 2-6-2t, not to move until say 7-8v while a ‘normal’ lgb loco switched at 2-5v, an analog gee whiz feature, long before digital)
it does NOT require reversing current to operate. Eg, If pulling a car, one could slow then stop until lanterns light yellow then red, raise voltage to pull away, yellow, and then faster to raise coupler, lanterns off.
re battery, should work, provided it can deliver 10-12v, id guess, and output can be raised and lowered.
So if the couplers work, im guessing youre around 7-8 volts, but you need higher voltage to overcome the motor resistor level. And, a remote to vary the battery output.
they are excellent, and take a bit of practice, but will crawl nicely…
these locos have a voltage ‘threshold’ for
1 dropping the coupler, extending coupler ‘tongue’ , yellow roof lantern, then red, ive not measured, but id estimate 3-5v from memory.
2 engaging the loco motor, yellow lantern, red off, about 7-8v, coupler will still be dropped
3 raising the the coupler, estimated 10v, lanterns off- this important to note, in case the coupler doesnt raise.
fwiw, yellow lantern indicates ‘within coupler operating range’
red is coupler engaged/dropped loop tongue extended
off indicates no coupler drop
The loco needs higher voltage/ speed, for the coupler to raise. So if you slow, stop, uncouple, and slowly move off, the coupler wont raise until youre running somewhat faster.
these have a significantly higher voltage threshold for movement compared to almost all other lgb locos, except those with the old ‘switching’ circuitry (i think this was designated HEV??another high voltage threshold for movement,..allowed a larger loco like my Hrz 2-6-2t, not to move until say 7-8v while a ‘normal’ lgb loco switched at 2-5v, an analog gee whiz feature, long before digital)
it does NOT require reversing current to operate. Eg, If pulling a car, one could slow then stop until lanterns light yellow then red, raise voltage to pull away, yellow, and then faster to raise coupler, lanterns off.
re battery, should work, provided it can deliver 10-12v, id guess, and output can be raised and lowered.
So if the couplers work, im guessing youre around 7-8 volts, but you need higher voltage to overcome the motor resistor level. And, a remote to vary the battery output.
Last edited: