LGB Diamond (30o) crossing shorting / jerky locos

curtis

curtis

Registered
27 Nov 2018
28
5
29
Germany
Hi everyone,

I think Track & Track Laying is the best place for this. I've recently acquired a 30o LGB Diamond Crossing. Unfortunately, it seems to be causing minor troubles when the locomotives pass over it - enough that even my girlfriend commented they were having "a tough time" on that part of the track. The locos jerk briefly and if I get down to floor level I can see small sparks from the skids. It appears to happen as they cross the X in the centre. I've recorded two short videos. Has anyone seen this before or any thoughts on how it could be addressed?

I've included a video of the odd behaviour:
http://instagr.am/p/Bz1PfCzn0dn/
 
Bill Barnwell

Bill Barnwell

Registered
30 Sep 2017
627
89
75
Ormond Beach, Fl
Looks like the wheel flange is too deep for the frog, look at the center of the frog and there should be no wheel marks, and if there is try taking out some material out in the center of the frog also those crossings are very sensitive to level and notice it is on carpet might try shifting it over a little and getting it flat an see if the problem continues, Bill, PS also if you can electrically tie the engine and tender together to give a longer pickup area because what I see is very common with 0-4-0 locos
 
ebay mike

ebay mike

Registered
6 Dec 2011
2,575
256
Norfolk
The jerking could be down to the short wheelbase hitting a dead spot when crossing. The sparks attributable to the skates touching the rails of the other track. I am assuming the tender is unmotorized. One solution would be to remove the skates, fit current collecting wheels on the tender and install jumper wires between the two. This would give you 8 wheel pick-up - enough to ensure continuity across almost any dead spots. You will also lose any flickering of the loco's lights. Another alternative course of action - remove the skates and fit an LGB power buffer to provide a continuous supply over short isolated sections.
 
Gavin Sowry

Gavin Sowry

Garden Railroader and Raconteur
27 Oct 2009
6,203
257
66
Hutt Valley, NZ
What you have here, is a classic case of uneven track.
One of the wheels is losing contact with the track, and when the other wheel on the same side is on the dead spot, you stall.
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
15,227
554
71
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
Have had this shorting problem on LGB R3 Points. My solution was to add a little bit of Insulating Tape over the frog just at its widest part. Surprising how long it lasts.
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maxi-model

maxi-model

UK/US/ROW steam narrow gauge railways 1:1
27 Oct 2009
4,643
191
Bucks/Oxon/Northants area
Silly suggestion - have you checked for any debris, obstructions or deformation in the crossing's frogs, attendant flangeways and between the wing rails and rails themselves. An oft' seen issue at crossings and points where one has a ballasted track in the garden - bits of grit getting stuck in there. As observed by other posters the loco is lifting and losing contact with the railhead and it's an 0-4-0 with no pickups in the tender. So why is it doing that ? Max
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
23,862
612
Tamworth, Staffs.
Sparking / shorting will not help running a short-wheelbase loco through the crossing..

You can (gently!) bend the outside of the skate up a little, or you can add a strip of insulating tape to the outside third of the skates. - A short strip, along the length of the skate, just long enough to wrap at the ends.
 
KeithT

KeithT

Hillwalking, chickens and - err - garden railways.
24 Oct 2009
13,007
13
Nr Manchester
Hi everyone,

I think Track & Track Laying is the best place for this. I've recently acquired a 30o LGB Diamond Crossing. Unfortunately, it seems to be causing minor troubles when the locomotives pass over it - enough that even my girlfriend commented they were having "a tough time" on that part of the track. The locos jerk briefly and if I get down to floor level I can see small sparks from the skids. It appears to happen as they cross the X in the centre. I've recorded two short videos. Has anyone seen this before or any thoughts on how it could be addressed?

I've included a video of the odd behaviour:
http://instagr.am/p/Bz1PfCzn0dn/
That particular loco type is my bête noir! It plays up constantly, slipping even on the straight and even after I motorised the tender. It also struggles with pick-up where nothing else has an issue not even the relatively tiny Draisine. Yet, so far as I am aware, it is essentially a Stainz in a different frock. Neither of my Stainz’ has these problems.
 
curtis

curtis

Registered
27 Nov 2018
28
5
29
Germany
Thanks everyone for the speedy and detailed help. After taking your advise, it looks like it was a few things!

maxi-model - not a silly suggestion. Before I posted I actually removed a small stone that was lodged - but I was still having the troubles.

First, I moved the crossing to a slightly different position on the advice of Gavin Sowry,. After he posted it, I noticed the crossing was more jerky in one direction and made the change which had a noticeable improvement but could be improved.

What you have here, is a classic case of uneven track.
One of the wheels is losing contact with the track, and when the other wheel on the same side is on the dead spot, you stall.
I then gave the track another clean with the track rubber - again, an improvement (albeit minor). However, I was still seeing minor sparks as the locos moved over it (I also tried with a Piko 0-6-0 and 0-6-2 (LGB 1701) with similar troubles.

As suggested by Dunny, I added a little insulation tape and now it's got a much smoother ride. Someone else on Instagram recommended bending the skates too but I was little nervous about it.

The jerking could be down to the short wheelbase hitting a dead spot when crossing. The sparks attributable to the skates touching the rails of the other track. I am assuming the tender is unmotorized. One solution would be to remove the skates, fit current collecting wheels on the tender and install jumper wires between the two. This would give you 8 wheel pick-up - enough to ensure continuity across almost any dead spots. You will also lose any flickering of the loco's lights. Another alternative course of action - remove the skates and fit an LGB power buffer to provide a continuous supply over short isolated sections.
It was essentially a combination of these things. I actually bought this loco off eBay for what I considered a great price (€100). It was a bit more worn than the description let on but yes, the tender is motorised. However, the socket for the jump leads is actually missing (I'm not sure what creativity lead to this). My mine is add permanent wire new jump leads into the front part of the loco so they're always there - may help a little more.

In short (pun intended), flat, clean track (duh!) and a bit of insulation tape resulted in smooth running!
 

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Riograndad

Riograndad

Model Railroading, boats and oil painting,
6 Jul 2013
1,675
307
65
Northampton UK
Glad you have it sorted out,I had the same problems with a Bachmann Connie and a LGB Forney on R3 LGB points,on the curve the Connie was shorting and jerking over the switch and it turned out to be the center flange less drivers that are wider across the treads were shorting on the other live side of the points,this turned out to be uneven track and after running a small level over the trackwork an extra screw in the right place through the switch ties/sleepers solved the problem,as for the Forney it gave me the same problem when I got it(A USED ITEM) but on inspection one of the skates was bent down at over 90 degrees and was just touching the live side and shorting out,a little tweaking with the angle of the skate sorted the problem but it only happened when the loco was running in a one direction and when turned around to run the other way all was fine.I must say it took some time to find the problem!!
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
15,227
554
71
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
Thanks everyone for the speedy and detailed help. After taking your advise, it looks like it was a few things!

maxi-model - not a silly suggestion. Before I posted I actually removed a small stone that was lodged - but I was still having the troubles.

First, I moved the crossing to a slightly different position on the advice of Gavin Sowry,. After he posted it, I noticed the crossing was more jerky in one direction and made the change which had a noticeable improvement but could be improved.



I then gave the track another clean with the track rubber - again, an improvement (albeit minor). However, I was still seeing minor sparks as the locos moved over it (I also tried with a Piko 0-6-0 and 0-6-2 (LGB 1701) with similar troubles.

As suggested by Dunny, I added a little insulation tape and now it's got a much smoother ride. Someone else on Instagram recommended bending the skates too but I was little nervous about it.



It was essentially a combination of these things. I actually bought this loco off eBay for what I considered a great price (€100). It was a bit more worn than the description let on but yes, the tender is motorised. However, the socket for the jump leads is actually missing (I'm not sure what creativity lead to this). My mine is add permanent wire new jump leads into the front part of the loco so they're always there - may help a little more.

In short (pun intended), flat, clean track (duh!) and a bit of insulation tape resulted in smooth running!
Glad is resolved, I answered bending Sliders with what to do on the “what have you been doing today” Thread.