LGB cf Aristo points

[KeithT]

<p>Can anyone advise please? Are Aristo 30370/30380 points directly interchangeable with LGB r3s?</p><p>I am giving up on my LGB ones they are nothing but trouble even derailing LGB stock. Everything is strsight and level but still the problems, the newer ones worst of all. :wits: </p>

 

[chris m01]

Th short answer is no. They are a different length and a different radius. Also all but the very latest Ariso points have a shallower frog so LGB & Bachamnn wheels tend to rattle a lot over them. I use both and have had no problems with either.

Could it be your stock? Does the problem occur with metal wheels as well as plastic? I have replaced all my plastic wheels with metal ones and that may be why I have no problems.

 

[KeithT]

<p>Thanks for the advice about size/fit.</p><p>The problem occurs with both. Most of my stock is metal wheeled but still the derailing occurs. Often part of the train runs through OK then the rest dives off on the other track!</p><p>Vibration seems to be one problem which causes the point to partly open after trains have run over them for a while. I suppose I could fit a form of spring but that seems to involve a lot of 'messing'.</p>

 

[KeithT]

They all have motors fitted but I don't use them - yet. I may get around to that when I have understood the MTS better.

 

[Rhinochugger]

Keith

I'm not a lover of LGB points, but they shouldn't be that bad.

Have you opened up the box where the lever is and given it a good clean out? It collects a good deal of crud over time :thinking:

 

[Doug]

The Train Line R3's are an almost direct swap-out for the LGB R3s

Train Line top, LGB bottom:

 

[Doug]

LGB R3 on top of Train-Line R3, notice Train-Line fishplates are shorter and the straight track is about 1/4" longer:

 

[Bram]

I have got to say that I use Aristo manual points and have no probs. I do however also have 2 sets of LGB 3 way points and they are no problem

 

[KeithT]

In response to various comments: (All v helpful thanks.) I have checked and cleaned all the points and not found any problems, R1s BTW are good as gold always; I have points facing both ways at a crossover. Facing is the main problem of course. I was hoping to use Aristo but it would mean rearranging the run of existing track to accomodate them. The Train Line ones look interesting and I have had only good reports of them. The extra length of the straight section should not be a problem as I am using mostly flexitrack. I see that the frog has a brass insert, is it live??

 

[Doug]

KeithT - 29/10/2009 9:28 PM

In response to various comments: (All v helpful thanks.) I have checked and cleaned all the points and not found any problems, R1s BTW are good as gold always; I have points facing both ways at a crossover. Facing is the main problem of course. I was hoping to use Aristo but it would mean rearranging the run of existing track to accomodate them. The Train Line ones look interesting and I have had only good reports of them. The extra length of the straight section should not be a problem as I am using mostly flexitrack. I see that the frog has a brass insert, is it live??

It is not by default, but you can wire it in easily, the connections are there ready to be wired in. You would have to sort out the switching.

 

[KeithT]

Oh good. I prefer to leave well alone.

 

[Richie]

A friend of mine has just used several LGB R5 points on his layout and has had problems with stock derailing found that the frog on the point was not laying flat so wheels would ride up :thinking: also the switch that throws the point wouldn,t stay in place or on some cases wouldn't even throw the point at all

 

[KeithT]

<p>

Richie - 29/10/2009 10:30 PM A friend of mine has just used several LGB R5 points on his layout and has had problems with stock derailing found that the frog on the point was not laying flat so wheels would ride up :thinking: also the switch that throws the point wouldn,t stay in place or on some cases wouldn't even throw the point at all

</p><p>I have noticed that problem with the raised frog on both old and new points but I don't think it is the main cause for derailing.The check rails however seem to be a major part of the problem. I have made a new check rail out of brass rail and will try it as a last resort. Failing that it looks like Train line here I come.</p><p>Inadequate chamfering of the moving rail and its seating in the fixed rail is another cause of derailng. </p>

 

[spike]

KeithT - 29/10/2009 11:01 PM

<p>

Richie - 29/10/2009 10:30 PM A friend of mine has just used several LGB R5 points on his layout and has had problems with stock derailing found that the frog on the point was not laying flat so wheels would ride up :thinking: also the switch that throws the point wouldn,t stay in place or on some cases wouldn't even throw the point at all

</p><p>I have noticed that problem with the raised frog on both old and new points but I don't think it is the main cause for derailing.The check rails however seem to be a major part of the problem. I have made a new check rail out of brass rail and will try it as a last resort. Failing that it looks like Train line here I come.</p><p>Inadequate chamfering of the moving rail and its seating in the fixed rail is another cause of derailng. </p>

More than likely it's the guard rail.
The gap between it and the stock rail is to big allowing you wheel sets to hit the frog nose.
I had this problem with the pony trucks on my Connie, K-27s and ten wheelers, running thru LGB R5s.

One way to fix it is to shim the guardrail to close the gap, even better you have made a new one.
Just make sure your new rail lines up well with the frog and is long enough, think the LGB guard rail
is a bit to short this allows the wheelset to be in the frog before the guard is doing it's job.

 

[Rhinochugger]

spike - 30/10/2009 5:00 AM


Just make sure your new rail lines up well with the frog and is long enough, think the LGB guard rail
is a bit to short this allows the wheelset to be in the frog before the guard is doing it's job.

Some locos tend to thump the end of the check rail - the check rail on the LGB R3 is way too short

 

[KeithT]

spike - 30/10/2009 5:00 AM

KeithT - 29/10/2009 11:01 PM <p>

Richie - 29/10/2009 10:30 PM A friend of mine has just used several LGB R5 points on his layout and has had problems with stock derailing found that the frog on the point was not laying flat so wheels would ride up :thinking: also the switch that throws the point wouldn,t stay in place or on some cases wouldn't even throw the point at all

</p><p>I have noticed that problem with the raised frog on both old and new points but I don't think it is the main cause for derailing.The check rails however seem to be a major part of the problem. I have made a new check rail out of brass rail and will try it as a last resort. Failing that it looks like Train line here I come.</p><p>Inadequate chamfering of the moving rail and its seating in the fixed rail is another cause of derailng. </p><p>

More than likely it's the guard rail. The gap between it and the stock rail is to big allowing you wheel sets to hit the frog nose. I had this problem with the pony trucks on my Connie, K-27s and ten wheelers, running thru LGB R5s. One way to fix it is to shim the guardrail to close the gap, even better you have made a new one. Just make sure your new rail lines up well with the frog and is long enough, think the LGB guard rail is a bit to short this allows the wheelset to be in the frog before the guard is doing it's job.

</p><p>I will have another grovel on my handsand knees to see if I can identify which is responsible check or guard.</p>

 

[Woderwick]

<p>I think Spike has it, its been a pain for years. George Shreyers tips contains a whol page devoted to tuning LGB points</p><p><a href="http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips1/lgb_1600.html">http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips1/lgb_1600.html</a></p><p>He is a pic of his shim offering</p><p><img height="346" alt=" " src="http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips1/080709_girr_lgb_1600_turnout_guard_rail_adjustment_5238.jpg" width="461" border="0" /></p>

 

[KeithT]

Woderwick - 31/10/2009 9:38 AM <p>I think Spike has it, its been a pain for years. George Shreyers tips contains a whol page devoted to tuning LGB points</p><p><a href="http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips1/lgb_1600.html">http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips1/lgb_1600.html</a></p><p>He is a pic of his shim offering</p><p><img border="0" alt=" " src="http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips1/080709_girr_lgb_1600_turnout_guard_rail_adjustment_5238.jpg" width="461" height="346" /></p><p>

</p><p>There is a mine of info' on this site.</p><p>I should have thought about it before. For some reason I only think about it for repairing/fettling stock.</p><p>Looks as if I shall have plenty to occupy me this winter!</p>

 

[Geoff the garden nav]

George Shreyers is a mine of information but does anyone have experience of problems with GRS, British made large radius points? I won an 8 foot radius (16 foot dia) secondhand RH set on ebay earlier this year, apparently perfect, a product with hard wood sleepers, metal frog and check rails, looks great. I installed the points in September at the start of a new double track section only to find problems with my Aristo U25bs, have 3, the newest of which jumps off the rails when it hits the points from the trailing direction. It seem that there are subtle differences in the distance between the wheel flanges and the width of the wheel?. It seems that coming out of a 12 foot dia curve the flange hits the check rails and jumps off even at quite low speed. No problem when approached from the facing direction! Has any one else had an experience with these? have "temporarily" replaced them with S/S Aristo 10 foot dia, no problems in either directions.

 

[Rhinochugger]

Geoff the garden nav - 4/11/2009 9:25 PM

George Shreyers is a mine of information but does anyone have experience of problems with GRS, British made large radius points? I won an 8 foot radius (16 foot dia) secondhand RH set on ebay earlier this year, apparently perfect, a product with hard wood sleepers, metal frog and check rails, looks great. I installed the points in September at the start of a new double track section only to find problems with my Aristo U25bs, have 3, the newest of which jumps off the rails when it hits the points from the trailing direction. It seem that there are subtle differences in the distance between the wheel flanges and the width of the wheel?. It seems that coming out of a 12 foot dia curve the flange hits the check rails and jumps off even at quite low speed. No problem when approached from the facing direction! Has any one else had an experience with these? have "temporarily" replaced them with S/S Aristo 10 foot dia, no problems in either directions.

Haven't used GRS points, but being basically hand made, the thought goes through my mind that you could easily replace the check rail. It sounds as if it could just be that the wing - bent bit - of the check rail is a bit too short, and the wheel flange is hitting the end, rather than being deflected by it.

On the vary large radius Aristo point, it's often possible to see when a loco's wheels are actually being deflected and held in line by the check rail; the loco slews sideways just the slightest amount, but there's no hint of it riding up over either the check rail or the frog.

Hope this helps