LGB 26844 DR Mallet mfx/dcc/dc Sound Decoder Problem

[LGB333]

This is my first experience repairing one of the LGB/Marklin 28 Pin sound decoders, this one installed in an LGB 26844 Mallet Sound Steamer. The problem: All loco functions would operate except the chuff sounds and installed Massoth pulsed smoker. I installed the LGB/Marklin replacement sound decoder that initially corrected both the chuff sound and smoker operating issue; but while installing new piston plastic tubing and then testing, the smoker failed, and of course, the chuff pulse to the decoder stopped. I replaced the smoker with a new Massoth pulsed smoke unit and the chuff sounds were restored, the smoker pulses from the Hall Sensor inputs, but doesn't generate smoke. I measured the track power output from the decoder's AUX 8 terminal for the smoker and it's now only generating 6.4 volts instead of the required 18 volts to heat the smoker's heating element.

My help questions: 1. Does anyone know what CV or CVs I need to use to try to adjust the AUX 8 Output's voltage back up to full track power? 2. I've been using my Massoth Navigator to read and write the CVs on this decoder with no problem. But I'm wondering if I could use my Massoth PC Interface Module/Massoth Service Tool, or my ESU Programming Module to program these Marklin mfx/dcc/dc sound decoders? Or do I need to wait for the LGB/Marklin CS3+ Central Station I've ordered in order to properly diagnose, program CVs, and install Marklin sound files on these LGB/Marklin mfx/dcc/dc decoders?

 

[idlemarvel]

I remember someone had produced an MST template for the mfx decoders. I think it was johns but he doesn't seem to be a member any more (or at least JohnS does not resolve).

 

[PhilP]

With the correct (or something close) template file, you should be able to read / write CV's successfully. But you normally required the manufacturers own programming tool / software to change the sound definitions in a decoder.

PhilP.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

I don't know your answer (yet), but are you using the SUSI interface to the smoke unit?

Also, I would debug why the chuff pulse disappeared, but I took you literally, meaning an electrical pulse that was there before is now gone... if you mean the sound output or the pulsing of the fan, then it clearly could be a different problem.

So starting at the beginningm what is the interface between the smoke unit and decoder?

Greg

 

[LGB333]

I don't know your answer (yet), but are you using the SUSI interface to the smoke unit?

Also, I would debug why the chuff pulse disappeared, but I took you literally, meaning an electrical pulse that was there before is now gone... if you mean the sound output or the pulsing of the fan, then it clearly could be a different problem.

So starting at the beginningm what is the interface between the smoke unit and decoder?

Greg

Greg - There are four connections to the smoker: TO SMOKER: 1. Marklin DCC mfx/dcc Sound Decoder's AUX 6 track power (18 volts) Output 2-Wire Cable to the smoker; 2. Motor Block's Hall Sensor/Pulse Generator 3-Pin Cable Input to the smoker. FROM SMOKER; 1. 3-Pin Clock Output Cable to the Sound Decoder 2. 3-Pin SUSI Output to the Sound Decoder - probably for Load Control.

Just to clarify, when I installed a new replacement Massoth DCC Pulsed Smoker, the Sound Board does create the sound chuffs with the wheel revolutions; and the Smoker's fan is "pulsing" in sync with the sound chuffs. The only problem is that the Smoker is only receiving 6.4 volts track power from the Sound Decoder which obviously isn't enough to heat up the smoke fluid. So, my problem is how to program the mfx/dcc Sound Decoder to try to restore the AUX 6 Track Power Output back to 18 volts so the Smoker will burn the smoker fluid properly. I don't believe any of the wiring connections are the problem; instead, my theory is that when the original smoker "died" while I was testing the loco, it caused the AUX 6 track power output to get messed up........does that make any sense?

I have ordered an LGB/Marklin Central Station 3 Plus (CS3+) so I will be able to better diagnose and program these Marklin mfx sound decoders.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

I thought you wanted track power to the decoder directly, and using SUSI enforced that "commands" came from the decoder, not the rails.

I do see the 18v supply from the decoder, I would verify that voltage during operation.

Then I would look to the smoke unit CV's to increase smoke output. Also measuring with a meter may be deceptive, I believe that is PWM controlled, so your meter is reading some kind of average, but not really useful measurement other that full off or full on.

Greg

 

[PhilP]

From what the OP has said:
I think that possibly the Aux 6 output circuit has blown when there was the fault on the first smoker?

What is the model number of the smoker, please?

We may be able to use track-power for the heater, and SUSI for control..

 

[LGB333]

Greg -
Okay, I'll verify the voltage output again at the Decoder's AUX 6 track power output. I'm using a RRampMeter that measures DCC, DC and AC and Amps. I did test the new Massoth smoker with direct DCC current from my Central Station and my Navigator and using F7 she smoked up a storm, so the smoker is working ok. But there is obviously something wrong when the smoker is connected to the decoder and she's not burning any smoke fluid.

I did just receive the LGB 55029 Retrofit Sound Decoder I had ordered and it's the same exact mfx/dcc/dc sound decoder as installed in the LGB 26844 Steamer except it has all the factory-default settings on it. The new replacement decoder I received from Marklin for the LGB 26844 has been set by them with the sound file and other related CV settings tailored to this specific locomotive. So the LGB 55029 Retrofit Sound Decoder has a lot of installation documentation that will be helpful in sorting out this issue, but I still need to get the LGB 60216 Central Station Plus (CS3+) that I've ordered in order to more easily program these decoders.

 

[LGB333]

PhilP - The new replacement smoker I installed is Massoth 8415001 DCC Pulsed Smoke Generator for Round Boilers, same as the smoker that was in the Mallet. And I soldered all the cable connections to the new smoker exactly as they were on the defective smoker, one wire at a time. The new smoker's connections are shown in the photo except the cable/plug from the loco's Hall Sensor/Pulsed Generator that plugs into the vacant socket shown.

And that's a good point, there's at least one more track power terminal on the decoder board that we can use to power the smoker, if the AUX 6 is damaged. The new decoder connection would need to handle the standard F7 on/off activation for the smoker which, as you know, is also the default on/off activation in the smoker's decoder, too.

 

[LGB333]

PhilP - The new replacement smoker I installed is Massoth 8415001 DCC Pulsed Smoke Generator for Round Boilers, same as the smoker that was in the Mallet. And I soldered all the cable connections to the new smoker exactly as they were on the defective smoker, one wire at a time. The new smoker's connections are shown in the photo except the cable/plug from the loco's Hall Sensor/Pulsed Generator that plugs into the vacant socket shown.

And that's a good point, there's at least one more track power terminal on the decoder board that we can use to power the smoker, if the AUX 6 is damaged. The new decoder connection would need to handle the standard F7 on/off activation for the smoker which, as you know, is also the default on/off activation in the smoker's decoder, too.

View attachment 273003View attachment 273004

I noticed that I hadn't closed out my discussion and solution: The Marklin Pulsed Smoke Unit, which is a Massoth Round Boiler Smoker with special Marklin settings and wiring, arrived from Germany a month ago and I installed it into the locomotive and she works like a champ! The Marklin's SUSI cable/connector on it is only 3-Pin; a normal SUSI cable/connector is 4-Pin......strange. Before I received the Marklin smoker, I sent Marklin Germany an email asking how to set the Massoth Round Boiler Pulsed Smoker to be able to operate in their Marklin mfx/dcc/dc sound decoder board. The response I got back was: We know nothing about Massoth smokers; suggest you contact Massoth. Wow, that's a trip since the Marklin Smoker is really a Massoth Smoker with special Marklin Configuration.......go figure!

 

[idlemarvel]

Surely you should have asked "how to get the Marklin Pulsed Smoke Unit to work with Marklin mfx/dcc/dc sounder decoder board" as that is what it is if I understand you correctly, rather than saying it was a Massoth Round Boiler Pulsed Smoker? You just gave them an excuse to pass the buck.

 

[LGB333]

Surely you should have asked "how to get the Marklin Pulsed Smoke Unit to work with Marklin mfx/dcc/dc sounder decoder board" as that is what it is if I understand you correctly, rather than saying it was a Massoth Round Boiler Pulsed Smoker? You just gave them an excuse to pass the buck.

Yes I did ask Marklin the correct question.........I was trying to get a Massoth smoker to work on the Marklin sound board. And to reiterate, the Marklin smoker appears to be the same exact smoker as a Massoth smoker, even has the Massoth name on it. But apparently the Marklin smoker has a different decoder configuration than the Massoth smoker. After I received the Marklin smoker I ordered from Germany, there was no need for any instructions on how to get it to work on the Marklin mfx/dcc sound decoder, you just wire it to the board just like the original Marklin smoker was wired, and it worked like a champ with no adjustments needed.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

I agree with Dave, let me state it a different way:

To LGB/Marklin support, the correct question is how do I get my XYZ Marklin/LGB to work with my WXY Marklin/LGB..... the key being everything made by and supported by LGB Marklin.

Yes we all know Massoth makes the stuff, but as you yourself state, the firmware in the Marklin is different than the Massoth, i.e. they are NOT the same, ALMOST, but NOT the same.

This is like buying a Pontiac, but insisting the Chevy dealership fix everything... all the parts are indeed made by General Motors.

I understand your frustration, but it's not their fault. LGB/Marklin have made $$ by having unique/proprietary stuff. If you "buy in" to proprietary stuff, then you have to expect this kind of treatment.

Not meaning to give you a hard time, but if you want to mix and match, not every manufacturer will help you out...

Greg

 

[Diesel2000]

I was trying to hook up the Marklin Pulsed smokers in my 23945 V200 to a new Loksound 5 XL decoder and also have hit a brick wall with trying to find any information from Massoth or Marklin on the proper connection for these units. Tom was helping me with this endeavor. Unlike the Massoth units they dont have their own unique address. They require connecting their 3 wire SUSI to control, of which there doesnt seem to be any documentation on connection or settings.

I eventually scrapped trying to reuse them and went with Massoth 8413501 Pulsed Smokers instead, which are the exact Massoth product from which these Marklin PSGs come from. I would have preferred to use the ESU 54679 PSGs, as those have the exact same dimensions as the MPSGs, but was unable to locate any of these. Using help from some other threads on here regarding the MPSGs I added a toggle switch to disconnect the smoke units as I was unable to program the Loksound decoder with a Lokprogramer when the are MPSGs connected. This is definitely a case where staying brand-specific has its advantages and there isnt a lot compatibility.

 

[idlemarvel]

Have you tried the Maerklin user forum? It's in German but with suitable browser on autotranslate that shouldn't be a problem. (actually mostly in English) I don't think you need to register to look at questions and answers. I'll post the address when I get on my laptop.
marklin-users.net community | Forum

 

[phils2um]

This came from the Marklin-users.net forum:

Hi Tom, thanks for your reply.
My question is related to a Decoder-to-SUSI connection.
SUSI standards establish both a protocol and a wiring scheme.
Pin1 - black - Ground
Pin2 - gray - Data
Pin3 - blue - Clock
Pin4 - red - Power (Unregulated + track voltage)
Whay I need to know is to what pins of the 21MTC I have to connect the four SUSI wires.
Soldering the wires to the decoder is not a problem.
Regards,
Jorge.

The Märklin pulsed smoker gets its power from a different connector. The Data, Clock, and Ground are the only three SUSI connections needed.

Edited to correct forum name: marklin-users.net community | Home

 

[Diesel2000]

This came from the Marklin-users.net forum:

Hi Tom, thanks for your reply.
My question is related to a Decoder-to-SUSI connection.
SUSI standards establish both a protocol and a wiring scheme.
Pin1 - black - Ground
Pin2 - gray - Data
Pin3 - blue - Clock
Pin4 - red - Power (Unregulated + track voltage)
Whay I need to know is to what pins of the 21MTC I have to connect the four SUSI wires.
Soldering the wires to the decoder is not a problem.
Regards,
Jorge.

The Märklin pulsed smoker gets its power from a different connector. The Data, Clock, and Ground are the only three SUSI connections needed.

Edited to correct forum name: marklin-users.net community | Home

Ok great, thanks for those connection details. I’ll give it a try with the Loksound 5 XL decoder and report back on the findings.

 

[The Shed]

Details to be transferred to a Blog posting.