LGB 26270 /26271 Zahnraddampflok HG 4/4 Ep. II

Zerogee

Zerogee

Clencher's Bogleman
25 Oct 2009
16,794
189
North Essex
Saw that in Grootspoor's latest newsletter this morning; yes, LGB certainly seem to be doing a number of these ultra-expensive limited edition items, guess they must feel there is a market out there for them.....
Thankfully for my finances, it's not one that I'd be getting even if it was more reasonably priced, but it looks nice for those that are into that sort of thing.

Jon.
 
idlemarvel

idlemarvel

Registered
13 Jul 2015
1,704
127
Ascot
Google translation of the description. These are limited editions as Jon says, 399 worldwide for both models.
"Model of the gear steam locomotive HG 4/4 No. 704 of the DFB (Steam Railway Furka-Bergstrecke). [Fine]-detailed model in heavy metal construction with many attached details. Drive with a high-performance engine, all traction wheelsets driven by coupling rods. Gear for operation on LGB racks 10210 also powered. The gear drive now runs with when the locomotive runs on a rack and pinion track. Doors to the cab and smoke chamber door to open. True to original livery and lettering of the era VI, as the locomotive is in use today. Equipped with a mfx / DCC decoder with many light and sound functions such as headlight, cab lighting, driving sound, reed switch triggerable whistle and much more. Driving sound also functional in analogue mode. Built-in smoke generator with [synchronised] steam ejection as well as cylinder steam, steam at the exhaust of the vacuum brake and steam ejection of the whistle when it is operated. Length over buffer 40 cm."
 
  • Like
Reactions: mike
KentKeith

KentKeith

Registered
24 Oct 2009
2,793
317
SouthEast Kent
All rather bizarre. Kiss announced the same models with the same running numbers a couple of years ago and they are still shown on the Kiss website as due in 2020 priced at Euros 3290.

The HG 4/4 is a cousin of the recently released Kiss HG 3/4 which also currently runs on the DFB.

As I understand it the HG 3/4 originally worked on the FO before the line was electrified and were then sold to the French government and shipped to Vietnam. The HG 4/4 were ordered by the French government direct from SLM and shipped to Vietnam to join the HG 3/4.

Fast forward many years to when the locos were repatriated to Switzerland the preservation group purchased representatives of both types of loco and have been gradually restoring them for use on the DFB.

Somehow I can't see Kiss and LGB releasing duplicate models built to the same high standard. One in plastic and one in metal is plausible but two in metal in my mind just does not work.

As mentioned in an earlier posting I've got one of the Kiss HG 3/4 having seen the loco in Vietnam and later having ridden behind the same loco on the DFB:

125597_74b7cf7e56c13ad13059ef4e97097038.jpg


It is a fantastic model but, at its price, I would expect it to be. Based upon the low number assigned to my model, if they are being released in numerical order, my feeling is that the HG 3/4 has not been a fast seller. My feeling is that this could have led to Kiss talk to LGB to share or take over the production of the HG 4/4.....

It will be interesting to see how things develop!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: mike
PaulRhB

PaulRhB

Registered
All rather bizarre. Kiss announced the same models with the same running numbers a couple of years ago and they are still shown on the Kiss website as due in 2020 priced at Euros 3290.

The HG 4/4 is a cousin of the recently released Kiss HG 3/4 which also currently runs on the DFB.

As I understand it the HG 3/4 originally worked on the FO before the line was electrified and were then sold to the French government and shipped to Vietnam. The HG 4/4 were ordered by the French government direct from SLM and shipped to Vietnam to join the HG 3/4.

Fast forward many years to when the locos were repatriated to Switzerland the preservation group purchased representatives of both types of loco and have been gradually restoring them for use on the DFB.

Somehow I can't see Kiss and LGB releasing duplicate models built to the same high standard. One in plastic and one in metal is plausible but two in metal in my mind just does not work.

As mentioned in an earlier posting I've got one of the Kiss HG 3/4 having seen the loco in Vietnam and later having ridden behind the same loco on the DFB:

View attachment 253217

It is a fantastic model but, at its price, I would expect it to be. Based upon the low number assigned to my model, if they are being released in numerical order, my feeling is that the HG 3/4 has not been a fast seller. My feeling is that this could have led to Kiss talk to LGB to share or take over the production of the HG 4/4.....

It will be interesting to see how things develop!!
You need a black one now Keith ;), that’s dead gorgeous!
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
23,632
535
Tamworth, Staffs.
I agree, however I have just ordered this:
So who made the original?
AND,
Is it called a 'original manufacturer's name'? - Like a Mallet, or a Meyer.
 
KentKeith

KentKeith

Registered
24 Oct 2009
2,793
317
SouthEast Kent
You need a black one now Keith ;), that’s dead gorgeous!
Paul,

No, no, no, I don't need a black one!!! ....... unless, of course, they make a model my one as it was when they were operating in Vietnam :nod:

125651_e0c997e8d18c6eb8585c9b2ac2e534d5.jpg
 
dennishodge

dennishodge

Registered
21 Feb 2018
86
11
47
Bellevue, WA, USA
I missed the inaccurate blue DFB 1 LGB released a couple years ago. The blue Kiss model is gorgeous; thank you for the photo.
 
dennishodge

dennishodge

Registered
21 Feb 2018
86
11
47
Bellevue, WA, USA
All rather bizarre. Kiss announced the same models with the same running numbers a couple of years ago and they are still shown on the Kiss website as due in 2020 priced at Euros 3290.

The HG 4/4 is a cousin of the recently released Kiss HG 3/4 which also currently runs on the DFB.

As I understand it the HG 3/4 originally worked on the FO before the line was electrified and were then sold to the French government and shipped to Vietnam. The HG 4/4 were ordered by the French government direct from SLM and shipped to Vietnam to join the HG 3/4.

Fast forward many years to when the locos were repatriated to Switzerland the preservation group purchased representatives of both types of loco and have been gradually restoring them for use on the DFB.

Somehow I can't see Kiss and LGB releasing duplicate models built to the same high standard. One in plastic and one in metal is plausible but two in metal in my mind just does not work.

As mentioned in an earlier posting I've got one of the Kiss HG 3/4 having seen the loco in Vietnam and later having ridden behind the same loco on the DFB:

View attachment 253217

It is a fantastic model but, at its price, I would expect it to be. Based upon the low number assigned to my model, if they are being released in numerical order, my feeling is that the HG 3/4 has not been a fast seller. My feeling is that this could have led to Kiss talk to LGB to share or take over the production of the HG 4/4.....

It will be interesting to see how things develop!!
Keith, are they still making the blue loco? Where did you buy it?
 
wandgrudd

wandgrudd

Registered
24 Oct 2009
329
20
....
Keith, are they still making the blue loco? Where did you buy it?
Dennis,

modellbahn-seyfried has the full kiss range, haven't used them for kiss stuff, but can give recommendation had a few bits of LGB from them. Sells on eBay and has a web shop in English.

They did have a blue one the other week in stock, was in discussion but just cant do it, too much money for one loco for my sanity
 
Last edited:
dennishodge

dennishodge

Registered
21 Feb 2018
86
11
47
Bellevue, WA, USA
Dennis,

modellbahn-seyfried has the full kiss range, haven't used them for kiss stuff, but can give recommendation had a few bits of LGB from them. Sells on eBay and has a web shop in English.

They did have a blue one the other week in stock, was in discussion but just cant do it, too much money for one loco for my sanity
I think my discussion will end the same way XD

It says “Sound”. Is the control DCC?

Thank you!
 
wandgrudd

wandgrudd

Registered
24 Oct 2009
329
20
....
I think my discussion will end the same way XD

It says “Sound”. Is the control DCC?

Thank you!
Yes its full DCC by ESU I believe.

I would love one, it’s the blue that does it for me no other reason but the cost of that one loco just about covers the cost of everything else I want this year which is a good few items from the already expensive LGB band wagon.
 
dennishodge

dennishodge

Registered
21 Feb 2018
86
11
47
Bellevue, WA, USA
Yes. This is already the year of the overspend...

I love the cobalt blue. The new Hg 4/4 has a crazy amount of exposed mechanism and wins on that competition though :)
 
KentKeith

KentKeith

Registered
24 Oct 2009
2,793
317
SouthEast Kent
Keith, are they still making the blue loco? Where did you buy it?

Dennis,

My loco came from my local hobby shop in the UK who ordered and imported it from Kiss in Germany.

I've dipped into my pension fund to pay for mine but, as I mentioned in some previous postings, this model is something special for me as I saw the original loco in Vietnam in 1968/9 and then again I saw and rode behind the same repatriated loco when I visited the DFB.
 
dennishodge

dennishodge

Registered
21 Feb 2018
86
11
47
Bellevue, WA, USA
Well done, Keith: memorable and beautiful all in one!
 
stevedenver

stevedenver

Registered
24 Oct 2009
5,362
31
I love them both.
Always love blue trains.
Ialso prefer its more conventional wheel arrangement and angled steam chest.
Its simply beautiful, to my eye.
And rack.

The 4/4......so unusual....i think it would grow on me.
Price, yes more than a toy, but feature laden.

If i had an extensive rack layout, it would be a must have.
More “practical “ than the recent snow plow in terms of routine running.
 
dennishodge

dennishodge

Registered
21 Feb 2018
86
11
47
Bellevue, WA, USA
Guess it’s definitely not a Kiss joint venture. From LGB’s Facebook (with Google translation):

Lieber LGB-Freund, lieber Freund Schweizer Bahnen,
wie Sie sicher wissen, haben wir vor einigen Tagen das Modell der Zahnradlok HG 4/4 der Dampfbahn Furka Bergstrecke angekündigt.
In den letzten Tagen wurden wir vereinzelt damit konfrontiert, dass es eine Doppelentwicklung sei. Ein Mitbewerber hat diese Lok – allerdings deutlich nach Beginn unserer Konstruktion – auch angekündigt, gestatten Sie uns daher ein offenes Wort:
Bereits letztes Jahr im Sommer haben wir mit der Arbeit an dieser Lok begonnen, so dass die Konstruktion jetzt fertig und der Bau der Formen in Arbeit ist. Wir wollten diese Lok nicht nur mit Vorbildfotos ankündigen, sondern Ihnen gleich die Ausführung der Lokomotive anhand der fertigen Konstruktionsdaten und möglichst bald mit einem ersten Muster zeigen, damit Sie sich einen genauen Eindruck von diesem hochdetaillierten Modell machen können. Daher erfolgte unsere Ankündigung erst in diesem Frühsommer und nicht gleich zu Beginn der Arbeiten im Sommer 2018.
Ein erstes Muster haben wir mittlerweile bereits erstellt und freuen uns darauf, Ihnen dieses nach der Begutachtung und Optimierung hier an dieser Stelle in Kürze vorstellen zu können, damit Sie wissen, was Sie von uns erwarten können. Die Lok wird gleich nach der Spielwarenmesse 2020 ausgeliefert. Über Ihren Händler können Sie die limitierte Lok aber bereits jetzt reservieren.
Wir werden die Lok in der Tradition unseres Hauses und unserer Highend-Modelle in der bewährten Mischbauweise Druckguss / Messing-Schleuderguss herstellen. Nur damit wird eine ausreichende Stabilität der tragenden Teile – vor allem des Lokrahmens - unter besonderer Berücksichtigung der Kräfte im Zahnradbetrieb gewährleistet werden kann.
Auch ist die erforderliche hohe Präzision der Teile – vor allem im Bereich des Antriebs und des Zahnradantriebs – und damit ein einwandfreier Betrieb des Modells nur so zu erreichen. Die Anfertigung hochdetaillierter und hochpräziser Teile aus Druckguss ist eine Kernkompetenz unseres Hauses, in der wir bereits über eine jahrzehntelange Erfahrung verfügen. Wir möchten diese Technologie dem Freund von großen Highend-Metallmodellen – sei es bei der LGB oder in Spur 1 – nicht vorenthalten. Selbst wenn der Konstruktions- und Werkzeugaufwand unter Berücksichtigung der Anforderungen des Formenbaus ungleich anspruchsvoller und kostenintensiver ist als bei einer aus vielen Einzelteilen aus Messingblech zusammengebauten Lok.
Da wir die Lok in einer auf nur 399 Stück limitierten Edition herausbringen, sind die Kosten für z.B. die teuren Stahlformen für dieses aufwändige Verfahren sehr hoch. Diesen Aufwand halten wir aber – zusammen mit den feindetaillierten Ansetzteilen aus Messing-Schleuderguss - absolut für gerechtfertigt. So können wir Ihnen, liebe LGB-Freunde, ein feindetailliertes, voll funktionsfähiges aber auch robustes und vor allem werthaltiges Modell anbieten. Die hohe Betriebssicherheit in Verbindung mit der limitierten Auflage garantiert Ihnen ein voll funktionsfähiges und wertvolles Sammlerobjekt.
Selbstverständlich wird es auch für dieses Modell einen entsprechenden Reparatur- und Ersatzteilservice von unserem Haus geben

——

Dear LGB friend, dear friend Swiss Railways,
As you know for sure, a few days ago we announced the model of the HG 4/4 gear train of the Furka Bergstrecke steam train.
In the last few days we have been confronted with the fact that it is a double development. A competitor has announced this locomotive - albeit clearly after the beginning of our construction - so please allow us an open word:
Already last year in the summer we started to work on this locomotive so that the construction is finished and the construction of the molds is in progress. Not only did we want to announce this locomotive with prototype photos, we would also like to show you the locomotive's design based on the finished design data and a first sample as soon as possible, so that you can get an accurate impression of this highly detailed model. Therefore, our announcement was made only in this early summer and not right at the beginning of the work in the summer of 2018.
We have already created a first sample in the meantime and look forward to presenting this to you shortly after the assessment and optimization so that you know what you can expect from us. The locomotive will be delivered immediately after the Toy Fair 2020. About your dealer, you can book the limited loco but now.
We will produce the locomotive in the tradition of our house and our high-end models in the proven mixed construction die casting / brass centrifugal casting. Only so that sufficient stability of the supporting parts - especially the locomotive frame - can be ensured with special consideration of the forces in gear operation.
Also, the required high precision of the parts - especially in the field of the drive and the gear drive - and thus a perfect operation of the model is only to be achieved. The production of highly detailed and high-precision parts made of die-cast is a core competence of our company, in which we already have decades of experience. We do not want to withhold this technology from the friend of big metal models - be it the LGB or Track 1. Even if the design and tooling effort, taking into account the requirements of mold making is much more demanding and costly than a built-up of many items made of brass sheet locomotive.
Since we are releasing the locomotive in a limited edition of only 399 pieces, the costs for e.g. the expensive steel molds for this complex process very high. But we consider this effort - together with the fine-detailed attachment parts made of brass centrifugal casting - absolutely justified. So we can offer you, dear LGB friends, a finely detailed, fully functional but also robust and above all valuable model. The high level of operational reliability in conjunction with the limited edition guarantees you a fully functional and valuable collector's item.
Of course, there will be a corresponding repair and spare parts service from our house for this model.

LGB - Zahnraddampflok
 
dennishodge

dennishodge

Registered
21 Feb 2018
86
11
47
Bellevue, WA, USA
There is a posting from KISS on facebook regarding the HG 4/4 too:

KISS Facebook Posting HG 4/4 (german)
“Since our model is not a die-cast production - zinc casting is the easiest way to produce a large number of metal models quickly and cheap and has little to do with "Fineart" - but each model, individually and by hand, is soldering together from several thousand individual parts , the completion of the kiss hg 4/4 will take a little more time.”
Feel the burn!