Nodrog1826
Professional Idiot
LGB 23330 sounds any suggestions?
- Thread starter Nodrog1826
- Start date
Zerogee
Clencher's Bogleman
Do you mean what sound unit to choose, Gordon, or what sound files to have loaded onto it?
For the latter, I'm sure most manufacturers of sound decoders have a good generic "small electric loco" file that would do fine; as to the former, then a lot depends on what type of MTS setup it already has fitted. If it's one of LGB's built-in loco decoders, then the best option would be to fit a stand-alone sound unit connected directly to track power, such as a Massoth S (when you can get them...) or even one of LGB's all-in-one "black box" units, which would have to go in the cab due to the size.
If it's an earlier MTS-equipped loco with a 55020 or 55021 plugged into the main board, then you could still use the standalone unit if you wished but you'd also have the option of removing the LGB decoder, replacing it with a Massoth L and connecting a Dietz/Uhlenbrock Micro XS via the SUSI socket on the L.... the removed 55020/55021 could then either be reused to digitise another loco, or even sold to recoup some of the money spent.
I think I offered pretty much the same advice to the earlier question about sound for your Stainz, so apologies for repeating myself.....
Jon.
For the latter, I'm sure most manufacturers of sound decoders have a good generic "small electric loco" file that would do fine; as to the former, then a lot depends on what type of MTS setup it already has fitted. If it's one of LGB's built-in loco decoders, then the best option would be to fit a stand-alone sound unit connected directly to track power, such as a Massoth S (when you can get them...) or even one of LGB's all-in-one "black box" units, which would have to go in the cab due to the size.
If it's an earlier MTS-equipped loco with a 55020 or 55021 plugged into the main board, then you could still use the standalone unit if you wished but you'd also have the option of removing the LGB decoder, replacing it with a Massoth L and connecting a Dietz/Uhlenbrock Micro XS via the SUSI socket on the L.... the removed 55020/55021 could then either be reused to digitise another loco, or even sold to recoup some of the money spent.
I think I offered pretty much the same advice to the earlier question about sound for your Stainz, so apologies for repeating myself.....
Jon.
Nodrog1826
Professional Idiot
I don't mind people repeating themselves......
I suppose what I am looking for/thinking about is a something which is a cross between a tram and a lecy loco..
Deff not whizzy cranks sounds of a Crok, but with that sort of whistle, rather than a tram gong.....
I suppose what I am looking for/thinking about is a something which is a cross between a tram and a lecy loco..
Deff not whizzy cranks sounds of a Crok, but with that sort of whistle, rather than a tram gong.....
Nodrog1826
Professional Idiot
I've put this project on the back burner for the MOW ???
idlemarvel
Neither idle nor a marvel
I have an MOW with LGB onboard small (one motor) decoder. It seems to have a sound (SUSI) interface (see picture) but I'm wondering if it is enabled on the small decoder. Does anyone happen to know? I am planning to use a Massoth S 8232100 sound decoder and it looks like from the Massoth manual and from looking at the innards of the MOW that it will be easier to use a SUSI cable connection if possible. Thanks, Dave
Cliff George
Registered
That is not a SUSI socket, and the manual for small onboard decoder doesn't mention it supports SUSI. I am not aware of any LGB decoder that supports SUSI.
You can easily add a SUSI interface to any engine without a SUSI interface including all LGB engines with one of these beauties:
http://lgbstore.com/Dietz-D-DCC2SUSI-DCC-decoder-met-SUSI-uitgang.html
Get the manual from the Dietz site and run it through a translator. I've got a translated version if you want it.
One of these plus a Dietz SUSI sound decoder works out at about half the price of a Massoth S.
You can easily add a SUSI interface to any engine without a SUSI interface including all LGB engines with one of these beauties:
http://lgbstore.com/Dietz-D-DCC2SUSI-DCC-decoder-met-SUSI-uitgang.html
Get the manual from the Dietz site and run it through a translator. I've got a translated version if you want it.
One of these plus a Dietz SUSI sound decoder works out at about half the price of a Massoth S.
Greg Elmassian
Guest
What model LGB is that decoder? I was hoping to see it in the picture.
Thanks, Greg
Thanks, Greg
Zerogee
Clencher's Bogleman
It's the one simply described as a "Small Loco Decoder," as opposed to the larger "Onboard Decoder".... it's probably got a spare part number, but it was never available separately as a retail item like the 55021, 55027 etc.
They were standard factory fitments in many small single-motor MTS-equipped locos such as the yellow Kof and the Borsig (Kleine Dicke) in the old MTS digital starter sets, and also used in both types of the RhB tractors plus probably several others. I assume it's Massoth-built, but definitely without a SUSI socket. The track/motor wires are hardwired onto the board, everything else (lights etc) is connected via the plethora of micro-CT sockets on the board.
Jon.
They were standard factory fitments in many small single-motor MTS-equipped locos such as the yellow Kof and the Borsig (Kleine Dicke) in the old MTS digital starter sets, and also used in both types of the RhB tractors plus probably several others. I assume it's Massoth-built, but definitely without a SUSI socket. The track/motor wires are hardwired onto the board, everything else (lights etc) is connected via the plethora of micro-CT sockets on the board.
Jon.
Greg Elmassian
Guest
so Massoth made it for LGB, and was not available separately? Thanks guys, I'm trying to learn some of the components and history.
What is the LGB bus?
Greg
What is the LGB bus?
Greg
idlemarvel
Neither idle nor a marvel
Like you Greg I'm trying to learn. LGB bus appears to be the same sort of thing if not the same as SUSI. With the big brother of the LGB onboard decoder (for two motor locos) you can attach a Massoth S via the SUSI connector but you need a special cable as the connector on the larger onboard decoder is bigger. This from Massoth S manual:
"Connection to MASSOTH/LGB-Bus
With a special adapter cable the eMOTION S decoder may be connected
to LGB Onboard decoders. (available as item [HASHTAG]#8312075[/HASHTAG]). The track power cables [of the Massoth S] should be removed when using the SUSI connection ..."
I was hoping there would be a similar possibility with the smaller LGB onboard decoder.
Greg Elmassian
Guest
What I am finding is that while the number of pins are the same, the LGB data stream is different from the standard SUSI data stream.
But I also understand that Massoth decoders can be set up to accept either standard SUSI or the LGB data streams.
I'd make sure that this setting is available in the decoder you are considering (and I think it is), and then give it a try.
I doubt LGB put the connector there but there is no data.
Greg
But I also understand that Massoth decoders can be set up to accept either standard SUSI or the LGB data streams.
I'd make sure that this setting is available in the decoder you are considering (and I think it is), and then give it a try.
I doubt LGB put the connector there but there is no data.
Greg
idlemarvel
Neither idle nor a marvel
Thanks Cliff. I'd not really come across Dietz before. Are you thinking of the Dietz soundmodule micro X3? That seems to be about EUR 50 plus EUR 20 for the DCC2SUSI comes to EUR 70 which does compare favourably to Massoth eMotion S at just over EUR 100. Plus loudspeakers in both cases.
idlemarvel
Neither idle nor a marvel
Thanks Greg. Yes there is a CV setting on the Massoth (CV 240) to either auto-select or specify LGB bus or SUSI. So as Mark (
muns
) implied that SND connector is an LGB bus it should be worth a try.
Zerogee
Clencher's Bogleman
Also be aware that the Uhlenbrock SUSI sound modules are identical to the Dietz ones, one being a "badge-engineered" version of the other (I'm never quite sure which way round though)..... sometimes you can find the Uhlenbrock versions a little cheaper than the Dietz ones.
Jon.
idlemarvel
Neither idle nor a marvel
I have now fitted sound to my MOW.
I decided to go with the Massoth eMotion S (with electric loco sound) because I know this product and because the Dietz alternative seems to have gone up in price to EUR 70 since earlier postings which meant the price difference was down to EUR 10 and IMO not worth the extra complexity.
I tried using the sound bus plug off the LGB decoder board but the SUSI plug provided with the Massoth did not fit. Also I had read another article in German which said that the sound bus was not enabled on the small decoder. So I decided to wire the sound decoder directly to the track power.
Opening up the MOW I decided the best way would be to use the contacts at the back of the decoder plug (grey plug in picture below).
I traced the wires back to the motor block to find which ones were the track power (brown and white or "brun" and "weiss" in German):
I soldered some 16/2 wire to the back of the plug, and ran that through to the "bonnet" or "hood" where I was going to install the sound decoder and speaker.
The disadvantage of using track power directly for the sound decoder rather than using LGB or SUSI bus from the motor decoder is that a) you have to make sure the decoder addresses are the same (or I guess you could make a consist?) and b) to program the sound decoder you have to isolate it from the motor decoder, so it is not ideal. In my case I needed to change the default from 14 to 28 speed steps and parallel only so I could use f keys above f12.
I found I had to reduce the default volume setting (CV 200) from 32 to 16 otherwise the sound was distorted through the 8 ohm 2W Massoth speaker.
If I was doing this again I would probably remove the LGB decoder altogether (as suggested by an earlier "postee") and install an XLS as the cost difference between an S and an XLS is not that much and it would make programming much easier. Hey ho.
I decided to go with the Massoth eMotion S (with electric loco sound) because I know this product and because the Dietz alternative seems to have gone up in price to EUR 70 since earlier postings which meant the price difference was down to EUR 10 and IMO not worth the extra complexity.
I tried using the sound bus plug off the LGB decoder board but the SUSI plug provided with the Massoth did not fit. Also I had read another article in German which said that the sound bus was not enabled on the small decoder. So I decided to wire the sound decoder directly to the track power.
Opening up the MOW I decided the best way would be to use the contacts at the back of the decoder plug (grey plug in picture below).
I traced the wires back to the motor block to find which ones were the track power (brown and white or "brun" and "weiss" in German):
I soldered some 16/2 wire to the back of the plug, and ran that through to the "bonnet" or "hood" where I was going to install the sound decoder and speaker.
The disadvantage of using track power directly for the sound decoder rather than using LGB or SUSI bus from the motor decoder is that a) you have to make sure the decoder addresses are the same (or I guess you could make a consist?) and b) to program the sound decoder you have to isolate it from the motor decoder, so it is not ideal. In my case I needed to change the default from 14 to 28 speed steps and parallel only so I could use f keys above f12.
I found I had to reduce the default volume setting (CV 200) from 32 to 16 otherwise the sound was distorted through the 8 ohm 2W Massoth speaker.
If I was doing this again I would probably remove the LGB decoder altogether (as suggested by an earlier "postee") and install an XLS as the cost difference between an S and an XLS is not that much and it would make programming much easier. Hey ho.
Zerogee
Clencher's Bogleman
For a single-motor loco like this you could use an LS rather than an XLS - an LS would cost you £120 (plus your choice of speaker), as opposed to the £165 or so of the XLS. The LS is also physically smaller, about the same size board as the LGB small loco onboard decoder. The LS is good for (I think) 1.5 amps - though the latest ones might be 1.8 amp rated - which is way more than a single Buhler motor should ever pull. Anything with two motors in it should use an XLS with its 3 amp rating.
Jon.
idlemarvel
Neither idle nor a marvel
Good point Jon, an LS would be more than adequate especially as the MOW is unlikely to pull any heavy loads.
Cliff George
Registered
Very nice install, thanks for posting.
Sorry for missing your previous Dietz question.
My experience from a recent purchase, only last week, is that Dietz prices are still very reasonable. The Dietz micro X3 was 49.00Euro (about £38.00) and the DCC2SUSI 19.90Euro (about £16.00) from https://shop.dcc-versand.de/index.php?language=en&osCsid=mmlfm74jp5pg88k4ln66usr1nptj9bko. Maybe I was just lucky. I got free postage too, since I spent over 150Euro with them. The micro X3 is being replaced with the ISA4 and possibly dwindling stock is the reason for the price rise. The IS4 is about £45.00.
I agree it is pain having two decoders in an engine and if there is no existing SUSI interface then replacing the decoder is an option. Using say a Massoth L, or Lenz Maxi combined with a Dietz SUSI sound unit is cheaper than most combined sound and driving decoders such as the Massoth LS.
Another good reason for using a SUSI interface on driving decoders is because a measure of how hard the motor is being driven is passed out on the SUSI bus so that sounds can change when working hard up hill, or coasting down.
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