Layout rationalisation - looking for thoughts on manual point operation options

[Rhinochugger]

You can change the throw by altering the length of a crank arms.

Yes, if you use crank arms.

The Tenmille one tends to sit on extended sleepers with direct action to the point blades.

The Williams Gauge 3 one has an integral crank in the design, which makes it easier to enhance.

 

[dunnyrail]

You may not have looked at the full Sunset Valley range, this ground throw may be an option. But at £20 a pop not cheep.

SVR Switch Groundthrow

SVR Switch Groundthrow

anythingnarrowgauge.co.uk

 

[Rhinochugger]

You may not have looked at the full Sunset Valley range, this ground throw may be an option. But at £20 a pop not cheep.

SVR Switch Groundthrow

SVR Switch Groundthrow

anythingnarrowgauge.co.uk

Plus postage across the pond - which it seems suddenly got a lot bigger a few years ago when the postage rates rocketed skywards

 

[dunnyrail]

Plus postage across the pond - which it seems suddenly got a lot bigger a few years ago when the postage rates rocketed skywards

No the link is from a uk supplier so that cost has been included already, just post from uk.

 

[JimmyB]

Some more alternatives.

Lever Frame Kit with six Levers | Garden Railway Specialists Tel:01844 345158

Dimensions for levers Fixing Hole centres 40mm Total height with Levers in upright position 65mm Lever Frame width 28mm Lever Stroke is about 40mm Point to Point. Point Movement 10mm Radius of Pivot point to Top of Lever Frame 25mm

www.grsuk.com

Point Lever Kit - Made in UK 8mm Throw | Garden Railway Specialists Tel:01844 345158

www.grsuk.com

Point Lever Ready Assembled Brass & Stainless Steel | Garden Railway Specialists Tel:01844 345158

These levers are for Peco and GRS and have a 6mm throw Not for LGB

www.grsuk.com

 

[Rhinochugger]

Some more alternatives.

Lever Frame Kit with six Levers | Garden Railway Specialists Tel:01844 345158

Dimensions for levers Fixing Hole centres 40mm Total height with Levers in upright position 65mm Lever Frame width 28mm Lever Stroke is about 40mm Point to Point. Point Movement 10mm Radius of Pivot point to Top of Lever Frame 25mm

www.grsuk.com

Point Lever Kit - Made in UK 8mm Throw | Garden Railway Specialists Tel:01844 345158

www.grsuk.com

Point Lever Ready Assembled Brass & Stainless Steel | Garden Railway Specialists Tel:01844 345158

These levers are for Peco and GRS and have a 6mm throw Not for LGB

www.grsuk.com

That's interesting Jimmy - apart from anything else, they're some new items from GRS since they undertook a massive slimming down of their catalogue

 

[Rhinochugger]

You may not have looked at the full Sunset Valley range, this ground throw may be an option. But at £20 a pop not cheep.

SVR Switch Groundthrow

SVR Switch Groundthrow

anythingnarrowgauge.co.uk

Ah Simon Whenmouth in Holsworthy - he's been developing some good trade both ways with the US

 

[Gavin Sowry]

A recurring theme in all this..... postage rates. Frankly, that more than anything else, is killing this (and others) hobby.
Years ago, I'd mail order from all around the world, without hesitation. These days, well, ............

 

[Martino]

I ran into similar problems with DCC/auto control. In Northwest Florida our sandy soil gets into everything! I set up a system using cycle brake cables and sliding bolts. That’s worked really well but I found placing the bolts/controllers in my garden problematic - my lack of planning rather than deficiencies of the system. I think I posted a thread on the whole thing, but can’t find it at the moment.
I then used Bertram Heyn point levers. Excellent quality and not too expensive (everything is relative!). His customer service is outstanding. As my line is (was) at ground level I used a length of rail with a bit of brass soldered onto the end. This I carry around with me as I operate the railway. I can easily switch the pints as required. This ’stick’ for want of a better word also works to uncouple the chopper couplings I use.

 

[JimmyB]

I can easily switch the pints as required.

Is that beer, larger or Guinness?

 

[Ralphmp]

After the many helpful suggestions I’ve taken stock and realised that before deciding on which way to go I needed to understand what I really want from this exercise.

To date I have controlled points via DCC so I have been used to having everything operable from a single “location“ - my Na vigator. However, I didn’t plan for this it just happened as a result of using DCC. And whilst it may be convenient, there are downsides - by not being at the points when they are switched you are neither 100% sure they have been switched to the correct route nor that there isn’t a little bit of something trapped in between the point blades. Just because you hear a “clack” from the EPL motor doesn’t mean everything is ok.

So, Question 1 - do I want/need all my points operable from a single location? On reflection, no I don’t want this (and I’m still mobile enough to not need it).

Question 2 - do I want/need some kind of “arm’s length” manual operation for my points; e.g. rodding, cabling? Given my layout, this isn’t essential for all but 2 sets of points, and these will be replaced in the next phase of layout rationalisation. I‘m also not that handy when it comes to making mechanical things, so I think trying to replicate the mechanisms used successfully by other folk is likely to be beyond me.

I’ve therefore decided that what will most probably work best for me is to operate my points at their location using a lever attached to them. Which leads to the Question 3 - which type of operating lever? My criteria for the ideal lever for me are -

must have the correct throw for LGB points without the need for any fettling
must have a design that “locks” the point to the chosen route
must be sufficiently robust that it will stand up to being used by a cack-handed oaf like me
must make it obvious by its position which route is selected
must look reasonably realistic (bit subjective)
ideally, can be used without the need for painting, treating, etc.

So thanks again for all the suggestions- I‘m now going to do some research against my criteria and maybe try on or two options out.

If there is any interest I’ll report back on how I get on.

 

[Rhinochugger]

After the many helpful suggestions I’ve taken stock and realised that before deciding on which way to go I needed to understand what I really want from this exercise.

To date I have controlled points via DCC so I have been used to having everything operable from a single “location“ - my Na vigator. However, I didn’t plan for this it just happened as a result of using DCC. And whilst it may be convenient, there are downsides - by not being at the points when they are switched you are neither 100% sure they have been switched to the correct route nor that there isn’t a little bit of something trapped in between the point blades. Just because you hear a “clack” from the EPL motor doesn’t mean everything is ok.

So, Question 1 - do I want/need all my points operable from a single location? On reflection, no I don’t want this (and I’m still mobile enough to not need it).

Question 2 - do I want/need some kind of “arm’s length” manual operation for my points; e.g. rodding, cabling? Given my layout, this isn’t essential for all but 2 sets of points, and these will be replaced in the next phase of layout rationalisation. I‘m also not that handy when it comes to making mechanical things, so I think trying to replicate the mechanisms used successfully by other folk is likely to be beyond me.

I’ve therefore decided that what will most probably work best for me is to operate my points at their location using a lever attached to them. Which leads to the Question 3 - which type of operating lever? My criteria for the ideal lever for me are -

must have the correct throw for LGB points without the need for any fettling
must have a design that “locks” the point to the chosen route
must be sufficiently robust that it will stand up to being used by a cack-handed oaf like me
must make it obvious by its position which route is selected
must look reasonably realistic (bit subjective)
ideally, can be used without the need for painting, treating, etc.

So thanks again for all the suggestions- I‘m now going to do some research against my criteria and maybe try on or two options out.

If there is any interest I’ll report back on how I get on.

Excellent - yep, you really need to think out how, when and why you change your points.

I only have a single line main track, and indulge in a lot of tail chasing, so the act of point changing is not my highest priority

Points that are reliable once they have been set is a key criterion

 

[Ralphmp]

I ran into similar problems with DCC/auto control. In Northwest Florida our sandy soil gets into everything! I set up a system using cycle brake cables and sliding bolts. That’s worked really well but I found placing the bolts/controllers in my garden problematic - my lack of planning rather than deficiencies of the system. I think I posted a thread on the whole thing, but can’t find it at the moment.
I then used Bertram Heyn point levers. Excellent quality and not too expensive (everything is relative!). His customer service is outstanding. As my line is (was) at ground level I used a length of rail with a bit of brass soldered onto the end. This I carry around with me as I operate the railway. I can easily switch the pints as required. This ’stick’ for want of a better word also works to uncouple the chopper couplings I use.

I like the look of Bertram Heyn‘s levers - seem well engineered and look good. He also does a curved R1/R2 point which is very appealing for my rationalisation plans! Have you used the “directly attached” or “parallel” levers? I could use either but the latter look like they’d fit in the same footprint as an EPL motor so installing them should be straightforward.

 

[a98087]

Just Had read of this thread and had an idea.

Would the idea of creating several mini signal boxes work?

In certain places around the layout you could have a dedicated point control panel, using your chosen technology.

In some places you you could have manual and powered points to reduce the cost and complexity.

Dan

 

[JimmyB]

I use the new Revo Crest TE to switch my points, however for three points together that require my presence I installed remove toggle switches:

Kippo Signal Box

In my engine siding I decided that the points (switches) control would be motorized via a local switch box: However when permanently fitted this would require additional weatherproofing, in the guise of a building, the Kippo Signal Box fits the bill: The part as they arrived, quite a lot of...

www.gscalecentral.net

This the end product, but the thread give more detail.

 

[Madman]

Wow. Some great ideas - thanks; the photos are really helpful. (Jon, regrettably, I can’t install air power without a fair bit of upheaval as I liked the idea and I was impressed with your setup.). I’m thinking it’s probably a good idea to try some things out. I have a bunch of LGB manual point switches and I’m sure I bought a more prototypical lever from GRS a while back so some experiments are possible. As an aside, where would I buy welding rod? A builders merchants or is it something a more specialist shop sells?

Thanks again.

There is also suspended ceiling hanger wire. Comes in 12 foot lengths at most builders supply houses. It is 9 gauge wire that is sold in straight lengths. It's easily bendable. I used to have a fair supply of it as I used it from time to time in my career as a carpenter. There is also 8 gauge hanger wire. It is used to hang suspended plaster ceilings. It has the same properties as the 9 gauge but obviously stiffer. It will not rust as readily as welding wire.

 

[railwayman198]

I also previously used DCC for point control but removed the Massoth units about 3 years ago, for a couple of reasons. Rabbits had chewed some of the wiring and they were of no use on open days when track power was off to allow uninsulated visiting steam locos to be run. I 'temporarily' left the EPL switch units in place and changed the points using my finger. This has proved so reliable that I can't see the need for anything more complicated. True, not as realistic as a lever but no worse than I had before. My track is 18 inches off the ground so I don't need to bend too much.

 

[Martino]

Is that beer, larger or Guinness?

Port, actually.

 

[Martino]

I like the look of Bertram Heyn‘s levers - seem well engineered and look good. He also does a curved R1/R2 point which is very appealing for my rationalisation plans! Have you used the “directly attached” or “parallel” levers? I could use either but the latter look like they’d fit in the same footprint as an EPL motor so installing them should be straightforward.

I used the parallel type. As you say very easy to attach. They work very well.

 

[playmofire]

Is that beer, larger or Guinness?

I think if it were larger, it would be more than a pint.