Is DCC dead??????????

[garrymartin]

When I started in garden railways I considered DCC for about 5 minutes, it all seemed a bit ludicrous with too many possibilities for failure to my in experienced eye compared to RC battery or live steam or conventional track power. This system may be better than DCC or maybe not , I'm not tempted to find out.

 

[Tim Brien]

To be other than (another) proprietary standard, they will have to make a Bluetooth receiver to enable you to retro-fit this to other decoders..
It is a Bluetooth front-end to get the control signal to the decoder electronics in the loco.................................................

As I see it any retrofit will be to a DCC 'ready' loco as stated in initial posting, not to a decoder fitted loco.

I feel that this system is simply too simple for many to understand.

 

[Tim Brien]

This is the site that developed the system. The video on the site shows the integrated decoder/bluetooth receiver chip. The prototype uses a standard 8 or 9 pin DCC connector.

http://bluerailtrains.com/


According to Bachmann the chip uses Bluetooth4 technology capable of around 50 feet range.

 

[Keith RhB]

I feel that this system is simply too simple for many to understand.

I guess you're right, Tim...I just don't get it.

BTW, check out Ring Engineering's RailPro--another radio direct system attempting to do exactly the same thing. :

Keith

 

[Tim Brien]

Keith,
there are several DIY videos on You-Tube that 'mimic' the Bachmann system in that a standalone DCC controller is not required. However, one gets a headache trying to understand the basics of those DIY setups. One needs a doctorate in electronics to understand what is being said.

No doubt there are similar proprietary systems similar to the Bachmann model, however, what impressed me was the total simplicity of the setup. No DCC, no cab, no wireless internet, no dedicated CV programmer, no computer are required. All one needs is an enabled loco, and a power supply to which one adds their smart device. Personally I am not a fan of systems that use touch screens for operation as I prefer a solid object such as a switch or a throttle. However, for a generation that has grown up with touch screens they will find themselves very comfortable with the touch display.

 

[Tim Brien]

Ok. Reading this it looks as if this device is an alternative interface to the Massoth Dimax Navigator. However, it seems that it only works with one brand of central station, out of the box - ECoS. However, they say it could be made to work with other command stations, if they supply extra software for the handset. Presumably, in the case of the DIMAX 1200Z, this software would need to be developed and provided by Massoth. Is Massoth likely to do this and would there be any functional improvement using this new controller as opposed to the Massoth Navigator? Would it also require the 1200Z to have a WLAN connector - which I don't think it has now? If so, would this be some sort of dongle that could be plugged into the existing DIMAX bus? If not, then this would not be a viable option for existing 1200Z users, would it?
Other than replacing the Navigator, it would appear that the remainder of this solution [ie track side of the Dimax 1200Z] would remain unchanged - ie engine and accessory decoders.]

The way that I read it it is nothing more than a replacement for a smart phone, albeit with rotary throttle rather than touch screen throttle. It still uses Wi-Fi technology and most likely requires a DCC base station as well. Apart from the 'mechanical' throttle how is it different to a smart phone (other than not being able to make/receive phone calls)?

 

[dunnyrail]

My new one does!!! Needs charging every day, more if I use it

I have an iPhone and find that Battery life is considerably enhanced when Wifi and Location Services are turned off. These two really suck up the juice. Hope I am not teaching Granny on the mystics of Egg Sucking here.
JonD

 

[bobg]

Hope I am not teaching Granny on the mystics of Egg Sucking here.
JonD

Not at all Jon, but I have them ALL turned off, and it now lasts about 3 days if I don't speak to anyone too much.


Doesn't matter much, no one wants to speak to me anyway!!! :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( Wahhhhhhh!

 

[stockers]

Is DCC dead:- I very much doubt it. This sounds an interesting development but is really DCC all be it bypassing the expensive base station.
All systems have advantages and disadvantages. Cost being one factor.
Analogue is still around, it has two great things going for it - cost and simplicity. There are loads of DCC users, using a base station so that isn't going to change anytime quick.
But change is all around and nothing lasts for ever (other than tax and death) - so bring it on. I will be interested even if not involved.

 

[ntpntpntp]

Digital command control through the rails is 25+ year old technology now (remember Hornby Zero-1, Salota, early Trix and Maerklin proprietary systems etc. ) that just happens to have been standardised for the most part as NMRA DCC (there are still other niche players out there). It's bound to be overtaken by newer technologies, it will be interesting to see what takes hold.

I for one am not a fan of the touch screen / phone interface from both a tactile and visibility point of view, but they are cheap commodity devices these days and it makes sense to enable such devices for control of toy trains.

 

[bobg]

I for one am not a fan of the touch screen / phone interface from both a tactile and visibility point of view, but they are cheap commodity devices these days and it makes sense to enable such devices for control of toy trains.

Part of the vid talked about other features such as coaling and water opportunities being screen lead. Whilst for some of us older folks these may seem superfluous, we must also/remember the young, and very young, if we wish to pull them into the hobby. As I posted last week at least one of the G/children had no idea what a computer mouse was, but is entirely happy with touch screen. He would be totally at home with this system. Horses for courses as always. It's your bag; or it isn't, but change WILL happen, it only remains which direction it goes.

 

[Martino]

Hopefully not thread drift, but this is similar to the issue my parents in law (85 years old) are having with their car. It's a new Cadillac and has a touch screen interface for navigation, audio, aircon and virtually everything else. It baffles them totally. They want chop it in for a car that they understand, but nearly everything new has this technology. Unlike me, they won't consider a 7 year old car with buttons.

I'm happy with touch screen phones, tablets etc and hardly use my traditional desktop and laptop Macs any more.

The thought of a bluetooth DCC system certainly is attractive, although I can see there are ups and downs.

Now, how about 'Siri, throw points 1 and 4 to the main line, blow the cylinder drain cocks on the 2-6-0 and accelerate the train to a scale 25mph, stopping at the next station'?

 

[Trainman58]

Personally I think the next way to go is DCC radio control. It is part way there but not fully yet. I have an Accucraft Baugley Drewery which is fitted with a NEC transmitter thingy and is talking to a LokSound sound decoder and batteries fitted to the loco. My mate did it as an experiment and it works fine. Sadly he has passed away now and the technology with it. He did it to prove it can be done efficiently. It is ok but we had to use a HO decoder because the NEC gadget is only rated to 2.0 amps (from memory). It doesn't rate for the larger decoders yet. AND he had a pile of troubles setting it all up. I think this could be explored more fully. Just think no track power and just a small NEC or RCS type controller! Wonderful music.

 

[bobg]

The trouble with "next logical steps" these days, is that technology can overtake them and they just get left out. I think perhaps that can be where, we the older generation, can easily get left behind

 

[PhilP]

<snip>

I'm happy with touch screen

Now, how about 'Siri, throw points 1 and 4 to the main line, blow the cylinder drain cocks on the 2-6-0 and accelerate the train to a scale 25mph, stopping at the next station'?

Siri;
"Sorry, I'm female, and too busy sorting out where you can get flowers, remembering who you need to ring, when you are meeting the lads etc. to play silly trains!"

 

[Zerogee]

Personally I think the next way to go is DCC radio control. It is part way there but not fully yet. I have an Accucraft Baugley Drewery which is fitted with a NEC transmitter thingy and is talking to a LokSound sound decoder and batteries fitted to the loco. My mate did it as an experiment and it works fine. Sadly he has passed away now and the technology with it. He did it to prove it can be done efficiently. It is ok but we had to use a HO decoder because the NEC gadget is only rated to 2.0 amps (from memory). It doesn't rate for the larger decoders yet. AND he had a pile of troubles setting it all up. I think this could be explored more fully. Just think no track power and just a small NEC or RCS type controller! Wonderful music.

I think the kit we've been discussing in this other long-running thread:
https://www.gscalecentral.net/digital-%28dcc%29/anything-else-that-will-do-what-the-drc300-promised/
may be getting close to what you're looking for...?

Jon.

 

[Beddhist]

For US users this R/C DCC already exists: Airwire and G-Wire. I have a rail truck running with this, albeit with problems, the Davenport is next and the kit for my Kamel has been ordered.

 

[Zerogee]

For US users this R/C DCC already exists: Airwire and G-Wire. I have a rail truck running with this, albeit with problems, the Davenport is next and the kit for my Kamel has been ordered.

These have been briefly discussed in the other thread I mentioned, though I'm still not 100% clear if Airwire/G-Wire will allow the use of any NMRA-compliant DCC decoder, or just their own proprietory types....?

Can I ask what the problems are that you've encountered with the railtruck...?

Jon.

 

[davidarf]

These have been briefly discussed in the other thread I mentioned, though I'm still not 100% clear if Airwire/G-Wire will allow the use of any NMRA-compliant DCC decoder, or just their own proprietory types....?

Can I ask what the problems are that you've encountered with the railtruck...?

Jon.

Airwire have a product called "The Convrtr" which is a receiver that they claim can be used with "Any NMRA-DCC compatible decoder". A friend of mine was discussing wireless DCC at a model show in Germany last month and the Zimo people confirmed that their decoders have been used with Airwire (presumably in the USA). The BIG BIG problem is that it is illegal to use Airwire in the UK because they are on the 900MHz radio band.

David

 

[Zerogee]

Airwire have a product called "The Convrtr" which is a receiver that they claim can be used with "Any NMRA-DCC compatible decoder". A friend of mine was discussing wireless DCC at a model show in Germany last month and the Zimo people confirmed that their decoders have been used with Airwire (presumably in the USA). The BIG BIG problem is that it is illegal to use Airwire in the UK because they are on the 900MHz radio band.

David

Thanks David. Presumably, if Airwire wanted to, their 900MHz chips could be replaced with ones suitable for Euro/UK use just as Tam Valley have done.... apparently in Tam's case it was a straight swap of one chip for another in both Tx and Rx, at no cost increase, which allows them to produce a version that runs on 869MHz and is thus legal for use here.

Jon.