IP Engineering open cattle wagon

ge_rik

ge_rik

British narrow gauge (esp. Southwold and W&LLR)
24 Oct 2009
9,759
365
Cheshire
www.riksrailway.blogspot.com
Just remembered that the source for the resin figures was Motley Miniatures - specials - Motley Miniatures

I've been wondering if I could make a plaster cast of a load of sheep heads and backs using plasticine as a mould. Has anyone any experience or tips for using plaster and plasticine?

Rik
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
16,323
1,055
71
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
Just remembered that the source for the resin figures was Motley Miniatures - specials - Motley Miniatures

I've been wondering if I could make a plaster cast of a load of sheep heads and backs using plasticine as a mould. Has anyone any experience or tips for using plaster and plasticine?

Rik
I know that you have had experience with Casting Resin, have you tried this as a master. Extremely easy to use with just hand mixing to create a Master Mould. A friend gave me some as an Xmas pressy and I have been well pleased with it.
image.jpg
 
ge_rik

ge_rik

British narrow gauge (esp. Southwold and W&LLR)
24 Oct 2009
9,759
365
Cheshire
www.riksrailway.blogspot.com
I know that you have had experience with Casting Resin, have you tried this as a master. Extremely easy to use with just hand mixing to create a Master Mould. A friend gave me some as an Xmas pressy and I have been well pleased with it.
View attachment 262224
Thanks. That does look like a neat approach. I picked up some PlayDoh in my local cheapo shop and will give it a try as I only need to mould each one once. However, if I get around to making a rake of W&LLR sheep wagons, I might give this a try....

Rik
 
ge_rik

ge_rik

British narrow gauge (esp. Southwold and W&LLR)
24 Oct 2009
9,759
365
Cheshire
www.riksrailway.blogspot.com
Had a first attempt at creating a plaster cast sheep load. I suppose it might look OK from several metres with eyes half closed. I might try another one with the sheep bunched more closely together - ie mostly backs and heads with minimal gaps between the sheep. This is actually quite tricky as when a new sheep is pressed into the moulding medium (ie PlayDoh), it squashes the impressions which have been made previously and they become mishapen and I end up with humpty backed sheep. However, for a first effort .......

The casting - don't look too closely at their faces - a bit scary!
IMG_9974_edited.jpg

The load inserted. I suppose it looks a bit better inside the wagon
IMG_9971_edited.jpg


Rik
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
16,323
1,055
71
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
Had a first attempt at creating a plaster cast sheep load. I suppose it might look OK from several metres with eyes half closed. I might try another one with the sheep bunched more closely together - ie mostly backs and heads with minimal gaps between the sheep. This is actually quite tricky as when a new sheep is pressed into the moulding medium (ie PlayDoh), it squashes the impressions which have been made previously and they become mishapen and I end up with humpty backed sheep. However, for a first effort .......

The casting - don't look too closely at their faces - a bit scary!
IMG_9974_edited.jpg

The load inserted. I suppose it looks a bit better inside the wagon
IMG_9971_edited.jpg


Rik
Sorry to be so well negative Rik, you always get it right but perhaps not this time. Think some time in £1 shops looking for cheep sheep may be a better use of time? Oh ‘cheep sheep’ almost poetic.
 
P

Paul M

Registered
25 Oct 2016
4,117
542
56
Royston
Sorry to be so well negative Rik, you always get it right but perhaps not this time. Think some time in £1 shops looking for cheep sheep may be a better use of time? Oh ‘cheep sheep’ almost poetic.
Sheep don't go cheap though. They go baaaaa
 
musket the dog

musket the dog

Professional engineer, amateur modeler
31 Oct 2009
532
41
Leicester
nlrr.webs.com
The wagons look really good Rik, is the Tralee wagon very tall or just large compared to the generic sheep wagon?

Regarding the sheep, what about dividers? That way you could continue using your current amount of sheep but just over a smaller area of the wagon. If you were to recast the sheep block, have less space between each animal and less black on show?
 
ge_rik

ge_rik

British narrow gauge (esp. Southwold and W&LLR)
24 Oct 2009
9,759
365
Cheshire
www.riksrailway.blogspot.com
The wagons look really good Rik, is the Tralee wagon very tall or just large compared to the generic sheep wagon?
The footprint of the Tralee wagon is a bit larger but not by much - but as you say it is taller. When I bought it, the chap on the stall at Llanfair said it was 10mm scale - but I don't think so. A 10mm scale wagon would be massive. I've not got any drawings of T&D cattle wagons so can't check the dimensions
Regarding the sheep, what about dividers? That way you could continue using your current amount of sheep but just over a smaller area of the wagon. If you were to recast the sheep block, have less space between each animal and less black on show?
Dividers sound like a good idea if all else fails. Yes, I thought I'd have another go but bunching them as tightly together as I can, as you say so the amount of visible floor space is minimal. As I mentioned, this is quite tricky as the PlayDoh distorts when a new sheep is squidged into it.

Rik
 
ge_rik

ge_rik

British narrow gauge (esp. Southwold and W&LLR)
24 Oct 2009
9,759
365
Cheshire
www.riksrailway.blogspot.com
Sorry to be so well negative Rik, you always get it right but perhaps not this time. Think some time in £1 shops looking for cheep sheep may be a better use of time? Oh ‘cheep sheep’ almost poetic.
Hi Jon
I agree, it's not one of my most successful experiments - but I'm always willing to give these things a try. I do keep an eye open for cheap sheep in bargain shops. I've noticed in the farm packs that generally there is one sheep plus at load of other stuff like chickens, pigs, cows and horses all in the wrong scale, so I'd end up with livestock I couldn't really use. A pity they don't market flocks of sheep and herds of cows in the cheap packs.

I have got a mate experimenting with 3D printing the backs of the six sheep bunched together. They cover about 1/3 of the area of the wagon. I've sent him a series of photos of the bunched sheep taken from various heights and angles and he's used a fancy bit of software to stitch them together into a 3D image. He reckons it will take about 8 hours to print one bunch - so 24 hours for one wagon load!

Rik
PS - I spent yesterday attempting to create a horse harness for the coal cart I made a while ago. So, I've had to research horse harnesses. This hobby is certainly varied and interesting........
 
Last edited:
SevenOfDiamonds

SevenOfDiamonds

Registered
3 Jan 2010
117
37
As I mentioned, this is quite tricky as the PlayDoh distorts when a new sheep is squidged into it
Why not just cast each "sheep-back" individually (though maybe six or eight at a time)? No risk of distortion to the mould from a second impression (because there wouldn't be one), and then arrange as many "sheep-backs" as you can on a raised flat platform to fit inside the wagon.

Best wishes

David
 
  • Like
Reactions: ge_rik
ge_rik

ge_rik

British narrow gauge (esp. Southwold and W&LLR)
24 Oct 2009
9,759
365
Cheshire
www.riksrailway.blogspot.com
Why not just cast each "sheep-back" individually (though maybe six or eight at a time)? No risk of distortion to the mould from a second impression (because there wouldn't be one), and then arrange as many "sheep-backs" as you can on a raised flat platform to fit inside the wagon.

Best wishes

David
Good idea. Gregh has also suggested this. I might give it a try.
Rik
 
Last edited:
ge_rik

ge_rik

British narrow gauge (esp. Southwold and W&LLR)
24 Oct 2009
9,759
365
Cheshire
www.riksrailway.blogspot.com
A screenshot of the 3D image. He still needs to tidy up the base but he's getting closer.
screenshot.jpg


Rik
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
16,323
1,055
71
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
16,323
1,055
71
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
Hi Jon
I agree, it's not one of my most successful experiments - but I'm always willing to give these things a try. I do keep an eye open for cheap sheep in bargain shops. I've noticed in the farm packs that generally there is one sheep plus at load of other stuff like chickens, pigs, cows and horses all in the wrong scale, so I'd end up with livestock I couldn't really use. A pity they don't market flocks of sheep and herds of cows in the cheap packs.

I have got a mate experimenting with 3D printing the backs of the six sheep bunched together. They cover about 1/3 of the area of the wagon. I've sent him a series of photos of the bunched sheep taken from various heights and angles and he's used a fancy bit of software to stitch them together into a 3D image. He reckons it will take about 8 hours to print one bunch - so 24 hours for one wagon load!

Rik
PS - I spent yesterday attempting to create a horse harness for the coal cart I made a while ago. So, I've had to research horse harnesses. This hobby is certainly varied and interesting........
Look for my PM Rik.
 
J

John Le Forestier

Registered
15 Feb 2020
15
12
71
Toronto
Sheep in the shops seem either too big, too small, too few or too dreadful!
I'm working on a sheep project here in Canada. The plan is to make my sheep patterns of polymer clay, then make molds in silicone, finally casting the sheep in polyester resin.
I plan to make both individual and bunched sheep. I'm just starting - I've made one sheep so far and still have a long way to go on this because I'm concentrating on my human figures at the moment.
In N America sheep were shipped in double decked stock cars:
1583685196794.png

1583685287055.png

1583685325214.png

1583685452783.png

Were I modeling sheep for open cars like yours, I'd bunch them in tightly so they wouldn't fall all over the car. I suspect the real railways would have done this, but I'm no expert.

Ordinary stock cars had only a lower floor and were used to transport large stock. Many were divided into wooden pens for individual animals, primarily cattle, but also bulls and horses. Otherwise there would be a great deal of knocking about. If necessary these beasts might be tied to the timbers as well. An aisle down the middle was usual, to feed and water the stock on the long trips common here.

I saw a video of sheep being transported in an open car in Britain. The sheep were penned into the ends and their freedom of movement quite restricted. A shepherd sat between the folded-up ramps which acted as doors. In this case the sheep were packed in for what I believe was a short run.

You're lucky! If you pack them into typical British solid-sided short wagons you won't have to model the trickiest bit - the legs - at all!

Cheers from Toronto.
1583685452783.png
 
Riograndad

Riograndad

Model Railroading, boats and oil painting,
6 Jul 2013
1,742
390
65
Northampton UK
Very interesting topic and if you want sounds,I use a Sound Blaster unit for cow sounds in my stock trains,I`m sure they make a sheep sound card and the unit fits inside the car through the door although in your case with the open cars hiding may be a problem,when using the small steam loco sound card I built a crate to house it and load it on a flat car.My unit came from Glendale but alas the shop now a fond memory but can recommend the unit,just a suggestion;);)
 
F

Fred Mills

Registered
27 Mar 2017
1,873
234
77
Ottawa/Nepean, Ontario Canada
Ahh, Johnny, I see you are planning on extending your range of figures. Good choice, sheep.
At one time I tried "Rounding-up" a flock of sheep to populate some of my Bachmann, and LGB, North American type stock cars.
The quantity needed for each car; double if we made the cars double deckers would have driven me into bankruptcy, unless I simply went for the Playmobile sheep...if I could have found some.
Their sheep sure as heck aren't perfect, but at least they seemed to be reasonably priced. At the time, I was led to believe I could obtain them in bag lots, but no dealers/distributors in Canada could provide them.
The only ones I could have obtained were packaged, 3 sheep and a shepherd, in each bag. If I had gone that road, I would have ended up with a grossly over-populated town of shepherds, with few sheep.
After considering having two pens at some stations, a small one for sheep, and a larger one equipped with an outhouse, a bar, and entertainment for the shepherds; I discarded the whole project.
We run our stock cars with imaginary sheep...!!

BTW; at one time LGB produced their stock cars in a green colour, lettered for the D&RGW, and the car number was followed by a "D", indicating a double deked car....but there was no second deck in the LGB car. Normally the D&RGW NG cars were painted Black, and Rio Grand Southern cars were a red colour. Often SG railroads used a lime based white paint to sterilize the bottom few feet of the sides and the floor of their stock cars. In service, straw was usually spread on the floors/decks, before loading.
 
ge_rik

ge_rik

British narrow gauge (esp. Southwold and W&LLR)
24 Oct 2009
9,759
365
Cheshire
www.riksrailway.blogspot.com
Hi John (Johnny?).
That sounds like an interesting development. My problem is really one of finance. The six sheep I have bought so far were £5 each. They take up 1/3 of the wagon space when bunched together. So, to fill the wagon would cost me £90, which seems somewhat excessive when the wagon itself cost half of that. I'm sure your resin castings will be great but to make them cost effective you will presumably have to charge somewhere in that region. I'm gonna have to find a cheaper homespun way of filling my wagons.

Rik
 
Last edited: