Idiot requires guide

ebay mike

ebay mike

Retired, but still hoarding. (GOF)
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I vowed I would stay with analogue control and never venture over to the `dark side`. Recently, however, I had the opportunity to purchase some DCC items at what seemed a good price. I hadn`t even looked at what the retail prices were- my rash decision to buy being based solely on what I had paid for the 4 LGB 50110/51070 combos I was already using. The closest I had ever come to digital was when I installed an LED watch as a station clock on my N gauge layout back in the easily eighties. I am now the proud(?) owner of a 55016p, 55005p and 50110. I have managed to work out I will need to install some sort of decoder chip in my locos but don`t know if I need any other Gubbins to make things happen. The handset thingy has a pull out bit with a black wire, but I see there is a similar unit for sale on the net that has a multicoloured wire and its called something slightly different. Do I need one of those too? Had a quick Google on the whole digital subject but ended up more confused than when I started. There was mention of transmitters and receivers and suchlike. Will all LGB locos accept these chips? What about my Bachmann, Piko, Aristocraft etc? Is the kit I`ve bought suitable or should I forget all about it and go back to my basic set up?
Your guidance would be much appreciated. Note I am not looking for anything complicated like point or signal control as that would all remain manual.
 

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Looks like what you have there is a basic MTS2 setup, the fact that it is "P" (parallel) is good because that makes it only obsolescent, not obsolete! That's not meant to denigrate it, if you got it fairly cheaply then there is no reason it won't give you a good few years of service - what I mean is that it won't necessarily work with things like the very new Marklin/LGB decoders that they are putting in the latest factory-chipped locos like the V100.
You've got a "loco remote", the handset with the knob, which is great for running locos but won't control things like points and signals, and also won't program loco decoders. For programming, you would want a 55015 Universal Remote, which is the one with all buttons and no knob (!) - this is the one that takes the programming insert, which is the red box thing you mentioned with multicoloured wires from it. The bit you have with the long cable is simply to connect your loco remote to the central station, the reson it is removable is so that you can swap if for a radio-sender module if you want to go wireless, which is when you'd also need one of the little square black receiver boxes. For the time being don't worry about that, just use it on the cable provided this allows you to move around and get where you need to be to see the layout.

In the middle of your pic is a lead with a DIN plug on the end - what is that connected to?

The answer to "can my locos be chipped" is very much a yes, you can chip almost any loco of any age - some just take more work than others....

Jon.
 
Welcome to the Dark Side (pause for Manic Laughter). You may even have a Loco or two that is already Chipped without knowing it. All LGB Loco's were Chipped from new for a very short period. That is till some nutmegs complained about paying for Chips they did not want or need. Reality was that the cost was minimul, far less than the £70 or so that the LGB upgrade Chips cost. Plus Chipped Lico's run better on Analogue anyway.

Wish I could remember the Symbol on the underneath of a ready Chipped Loco. Perhaps someone has a pic that they can post. If not I Will do one for you.
JonD
 
A factory-chipped loco has a silver sticker (rectangular, I think from memory) with a capital "D" in a fancy typeface and a stylised drawing of a controller with a knob on it - which is a representation of the "Loco Mouse" used with the first MTS1 system.

Going back to your first post, Mike, to get started you have all you need except for at least one loco with a decoder in it. Use the kit you've bought to learn on, if you decide that DCC is for you then you can look at getting something a bit more modern later on. For the time being this will be fine.

Have a look under all your LGB locos (those that were made after about 1999, anyway) - if they don't have the silver "D" stocker that I mentioned, then look for either of two round stickers - one is a black one with a ring of white dots (5?) around a central dot, and the other is a silver one with a similar arrangement of dots in the middle and the words "direct decoder" around the edge. If any of your locos has either of these stickers, then it is ready for (relatively) easy fitment of a decoder - of course the loco has to come apart, but aside from that it's a pretty simple plug-in job. If none of those stickers are present, then the next best thing is a loco where the gearbox bottom plate has a small capital "D" embossed into the actual plastic moulding at one end. That means it is what they call a "four-pin" gearbox and can be chipped with a bit of simple rewiring of the electrics in the loco. Lack of the D mark means it's an earlier 3-pin gearbox - these (and the very old "clamshell" boxes) can still be chipped but need actual modification of the wiring within the gearbox unit.

If that hasn't already confused you horribly, I'm sure many others will chip in (pun intended...) in the morning...... ;)

Jon.
 
Thanks both jons. I have at least one chipped loco which has performed faultlessly on analogue - an ICE with two power cars and twin core connecting cable which runs through all the intermediate coaches. Perhaps I will use that as a starting point/test bed. To my knowledge i havent purchased anything 'modern'. The cost of the gear was £80 which was substantially less than a single 5 amp power unit. The lead with the din plug is connected to the small red box which plugs into the back of the handset. The 55005 has a corresponding din socket. I see GRS have a 55015p universal programmer for sale at £89 which has lots of buttons and no knob. Assume that's the jobbie needed.
 
Possibly getting a little ahead of things at this point, but if you think you'll seriously get into DCC and programming locos then personally I'd recommend a little box called a SPROG as a computer interface, rather than the LGB 55045 unit. Using free software JMRI along with the SPROG gives you a user-friendly way to examine and program just about any brand of DCC decoder (not just LGB/Massoth)

http://www.sprog-dcc.co.uk/

There are several of us on here using SPROG/JMRI.
 
You should not need to use the Din plug at all. The handset should connect directly to one of the LGB Bus connectors.

The DIN socket is there to allow connection of a MTSI LocoMouse (for compatibility) - it is effectively another LGB Bus connector.

Symbols on LGB Locos...
dcclogolgb.jpg

1 - On the motorblock, indicates that it uses 4 wires and can be easily used for DCC operation.
2 - DCC interface that uses the 6 pin connector and plug in wires
3 - DCC interface that allows an LGV55020/21 or eMotion L decoder to be directlty connected to the onboard electronics. A 6 pin connector may also be needed.
4 - On board decoder
5 - Has a 10pin DCC interface

 
Having recently started down the DCC path myself I can but agree with ebay mike it is very obscure and poorly documented for a beginner.

I started with an LGB central station III and my old 55016 hand controller which worked fine. It allows you to program loco addresses and combined with the 55050 RC sender & 55055 p wireless receiver gives you wireless control of your locos.

You can use the 55016 hand controller and the wireless components with the 51070 throttle to keep running your trains in DC mode before you become fully converted to DCC.

I would recommend the Massoth Dimax navigator as a useful next step that will work with all of the above and allow you to explore the more advanced features an benefits of DCC. Use of the MassothDimax Navigator and a Massoth Dimax single channel switch decoder II is a very easy introduction to points control and has the benefit of remarkably simple wiring.

It's worth repeating that the documentation is obscure and lots of the discussion is confusing, but if you try to approach it systematically and slowly you will start making some progress and then it becomes quite enjoyable.

Trust me I'm a fellow idiot ;).
 
Well it seems like an age since I added the option of DCC to my analogue TE DC power system. But it has only been 2 years or so.
I too wanted a 'DCC FOR DUMMIES' book but then looked on t'inter-web and found quite a few goodly references. I am 'up north' at moment....but will pm you with the web addresses when I get back, Mike, if you wish.
I had one loco already chipped, also with sound and started with a cheap LGB MTS III set-up from fleabay. It was great to be able to control the sound and a second loco independently from the first.

I also looked at some diagrams for connecting up a DCC decoder, both sound and non-sound, and had a go at installing one. It didn't emit any 'magic smoke' and seemed to work as it should....result!

I know that your resourcefulness and your ability will soon fathom it out..........
The bit that I have found the most 'challenging', is the fact that some species of decoder have more parameters, that you can adjust, than you could throw a sticky-thing at.
I have managed to 'cock-up' a few decoder settings in my search for enlightenment.........thank goodness that they can be 'reset' to factory condition!!

Having said all this.......... I still have an affection for the simplicity of the TE system and will run locos, even chipped ones, on DC from time to time..... Don't ask me why......perhaps it is just like.... The original love of real steam over diesel.......
 
GNB said:
I would recommend the Massoth Dimax navigator as a useful next step that will work with all of the above and allow you to explore the more advanced features an benefits of DCC. Use of the MassothDimax Navigator and a Massoth Dimax single channel switch decoder II is a very easy introduction to points control and has the benefit of remarkably simple wiring.
Click to expand...

The Navigator would be a good recommendation if the OP's equipment could handle it? The 55005(p) is MTS II and does not have a DiMax bus port (which the 55006 MTS III does have).
 
ntpntpntp said:
Possibly getting a little ahead of things at this point, but if you think you'll seriously get into DCC and programming locos then personally I'd recommend a little box called a SPROG as a computer interface, rather than the LGB 55045 unit. Using free software JMRI along with the SPROG gives you a user-friendly way to examine and program just about any brand of DCC decoder (not just LGB/Massoth)

http://www.sprog-dcc.co.uk/

There are several of us on here using SPROG/JMRI.
Click to expand...

Hm Sprog, now if you really want to be confused with something that takes an age to not set up get a Sprog. Tried one out with Andy Rush for his 00 as it was always recommended by Luminaries on this and the Mad Forum. Failed completely to get it working. It ended up being thrown from one end of the Garage to the other in Andie's traditional manner for dealing with reculcitrant items.

Now I know some swear by them, good luck to you.

As for a simple DCC(MTS) life. It will work just out if the Box with no faffing.

FOLLOW THIS SIMPLE GUIDE STEP BY STEP ON A SHORT LENGTH ( say 6ft) OF TRACK FOR PRACTICE

1 Two wires from Transfirmer (50110 use the left Black wire prongNo 4 and the left White wire prong no 4) to Base Station (55055) these go into the Black and White wire prongs in the 55055.

2 Two wires from Base Station to Track, these go into the Red and Blue wire prongs.
Suggest that you use Good Thickish wire for this.

3 Plug phone type connecting Wire from the pully outy thing on your 55015/16 into the LGB Bus on your 55055.

4 make sure the 55015/16 in plugged into the 55055 ok.

5 turn on the system at the mains you should have a Green Light on each of the 55005 and 55055.

6 your 55016 should have a Red Light at the Top and an orange light next to one of the Locomotives on the Handset.

7 Press F button and the Display should show L and 0.

8 Press F two dashes will show on the display along with the L.

9 Now type 003.

10 You are set to hopefully drive the Loco you already have that has a Chipmin it.

11 If it does not work, the Loco may have a new number assigned. Look underneath it to see if there is any indication of a number between 1 and 22. If not just go through from 1 to 22 to try each.

Oh you do need to make the number as a 3 digit say 003 or 010 when you key them in.ma success with then show either 3 or 10 at the right of the Handset Display.

12 one and one only non chipped loco will work as 0 so when you turned on the system such a loco will work. It will whistle a bit, I personally do not like using this facility. But with a Modernish LGB Loco, one with any of the stickers on that is not chipped it will work.

Try this out and let us know how you got on.
JonD
 
Remember that the manuals are available for download at gartenbahn database

http://www.gbdb.info/categories.php?cat_id=337&l=english

Click on the item and then at the bottom of the page there is user guide, which for the LGB stuff is normally a pdf of the manual and then there is also expert instructions which when I've just looked at the handset consists of a nice one page reference sheet for the 55016 and 55015. Be warned that stuff often appears in German First and then English (sometimes French) so judicious scrolling and or printing is the order of the day.

Chris
 
I found this quite useful, albeit that it is clearly biased towards Massoth and suffers a little in the translation.

http://www.massoth.com/dlbereich/datei.php?id=392

Nevertheless it is free and covers the technical aspects in a fairly straightforward and comprehesive fashion.
 
Muchus grassyarse to all for your suggestions. I've got a couple of days off together next week so will read and inwardly digest your posts then. All I want is an alternative to running back to my control panel every few minutes to make adjustments or turn the controllers off when things go awry. All my points have had the motors removed and replaced with the manual thingies you get on R1 points. I wanted it simple and the less wires the better. Signals have been acquired (compliments of whatlep) but have yet to be installed. Although they will work by the hand from the sky when I can be bothered their main function will be cosmetic. I forsee my future expenditure in this (DCC) area will be minimal so any system adopted is going to be limited. Analogue and digital would have to run side by side or be selectable as and when required. I have no intention of purchasing over 140 decoders to equip the whole stable.
Not too sure about that sprog job nick. My only experience (and its not enjoyable) is with sprogs of the screaming variety normally found in the company of equally obnoxious mothers who think it is their god-given right to make the day unbearable for all who dare to venture within range.
 
Hullo Mike,

I guess that is the kit you must have brought at Bressingham a week ago?

Didn't get to meet you on the day.

Anyhow, I have been using MTS 2 for a few years now, and I have both types of remote, and the 55045 and 55060 interfaces.

I did dabble with PC control on my layouts and used a laptop running Win 2K to control the point motors.

I stuck to analogue control for signals though, using the 'type 2' microswitches on point motors, my signals being adapted Playmo and Bachmann colour light signals.

My experiences with MTS 2 can be found on the forum here....

https://www.gscalecentral.net/index.php?topic=3792.0

https://www.gscalecentral.net/index.php?topic=51853.0
 
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