I need help understanding LGB/MTS pulse smoke

[stevedenver]

So I’m new to digital and recently bought an updated Marklin Central station three. I have 7MFX and 2MFX plus LGB locomotives.

I wrote an earlier thread about my green Saxon Meyer (the version that came in the fancy wooden box).

I have a brand new 20483 0-10-0 fichtelburg.

On the bench, each locomotive has it smoke unit operating “properly” smoking while standing still, and chuffs when throttle is applied.

However, in using either my CS3 or my MTS3(p) unit outside, which may or may not be relevant, the locomotives operate properly, until they don’t. Both of these locomotive seem to arbitrarily switch from pulse to smoke to a trickle of smoke. I also noticed in the 0-10–0, that for whatever reason it will stop producing smoke from the stack and start producing smoke from the cylinders.

I have no idea what’s going on. It is safe to assume that both locomotives are properly coded, i.e. factory, (i bought them new),and, I have observed them operating properly, but, they seem to arbitrarily stop the synchronized smoke and go to a stream and a modest one at that FWIW, I have also noticed that if I shut the system down for a period and then restart it the smoke units will then again operate properly. I have also noticed that if I run a locomotive at high throttle say 15+ bolts, abruptly bring it to a halt, and reverse, sometimes the pulse smoke unit starts again. Or, sometimes, the smoke will stop, say at 9-12 volts, and if i run the throttle full, 18v+ the smoke will start again. Sometimes.‍

Other times, after “normal pulse operation“, the smoke will simply stop.
Sometimes, I can hear the pulse fan operating, but I get no smoke and there is adequate smoke fluid.

I am assuming that this is some sort of issue with the board or power, but I have been unable to decipher exactly what’s going on. Perhaps some thermal protection??

FWIW, I am using the correct Marklin switched power pack with the central 3. Everything is properly connected.

I have one locomotive, the Saxon, 1K, Alexander Thiemer, and its pulse smoke operates reliably.

Any insights or actual knowledge of what’s going on would be appreciated. I find it’s irksome because I like smoke, but not a real issue.

 

[Loco]

Why is the voltage different? In digital operation the voltage is more or less constant at the set value, i.e. 22 volt.

 

[stevedenver]

Why is the voltage different? In digital operation the voltage is more or less constant at the set value, i.e. 22 volt.

You’re right, of course. When I run the same locomotives DC, I noticed that the smoking characteristics may start properly and then trickle out, but return if I run at higher voltage in digital, the same thing seems to happen EJ they will start properly and smoke properly And then the smoke production stops on one locomotive, I can hear the smoke unit fan operating, but I’m getting no smoke. The smoke unit is neither empty nor overfilled.

 

[PhilP]

Perhaps they are running too hot, and shutting down the heater?

PhilP.

 

[Diesel2000]

What series MTS are you talking about (1, 2 or 3)? Everything works fine when using the CS3 (I'd assume)?

Those pulsed smoke units need a minimum 15V to operate, so likely why you get varying results if using DC. They are digital smoke units and not the analogue pulsed smoke versions. They are controlled by the decoder boards (not stand alone like Massoth pulsed smokers) and not all functions are available under analogue/DC.

I dont think the newer LGB MSD3 decoder like the MTS controls unless you have MFX turned off in the loco decoders and only have them set for DCC. They are LGB, but not backward compatible and not really the same thing as all the MFX stuff is from Marklin well after they acquired LGB and retrofitted their tech into LGB.

 

[Loco]

If it is related to the mfx protocol being used on a LGB MTS system, try setting CV50=0. It turns off analog and all digital protocols except DCC.

 

[stevedenver]

Digitally, I am using cs3, fully updated.
I still get smoke ‘fade out’.
To be clear, this can happen after only a few minutes running. Outside, 75-85f. This happens on my new 0-10-0 fichtelburg, and my dark green Saxon Meyer ivK. It doesn’t happen on my alexander Theimer iK.

My 6 other mfx locos with ‘old smoke’ work fine.

I may also , from time to time, run DC. I have a lot of non decoder locos that i still love.
(15 amp, fwiw)

In DC The pulsed smoke loco’s will run fine for a period of time, then “fade out“. Sometimes if I stop and reverse the locomotive, the smoke will come back on. Somehow, I’m thinking that board gets confused in DC.

But the real question I’m asking is why do I not get consistent synchronized smoke? And why, do I sometimes get mostly cylinder smoke and nothing out of the stack? (I’m thinking perhaps the cylinder smoke is simply remnant smoke and gravity after the unit has shut down?)

Fwiw, if i stop power, ie fully off, power cut to track, , and then turn it back on, i can activate the feature buttons, lights, bell, etc. . They respond. yet with smoke, sometimes yes and sometimes not.

 

[Diesel2000]

Digitally, I am using cs3, fully updated.
I still get smoke ‘fade out’.
To be clear, this can happen after only a few minutes running. Outside, 75-85f. This happens on my new 0-10-0 fichtelburg, and my dark green Saxon Meyer ivK. It doesn’t happen on my alexander Theimer iK.

My 6 other mfx locos with ‘old smoke’ work fine.

I may also , from time to time, run DC. I have a lot of non decoder locos that i still love.
(15 amp, fwiw)

In DC The pulsed smoke loco’s will run fine for a period of time, then “fade out“. Sometimes if I stop and reverse the locomotive, the smoke will come back on. Somehow, I’m thinking that board gets confused in DC.

But the real question I’m asking is why do I not get consistent synchronized smoke? And why, do I sometimes get mostly cylinder smoke and nothing out of the stack? (I’m thinking perhaps the cylinder smoke is simply remnant smoke and gravity after the unit has shut down?)

Fwiw, if i stop power, ie fully off, power cut to track, , and then turn it back on, i can activate the feature buttons, lights, bell, etc. . They respond. yet with smoke, sometimes yes and sometimes not.

The pulsed smoke units do not always work consistently for extended periods of time. I observe this with all of mine as well. What happens is condensation forms in the tubes at the opening and creates a seal and smoke can completely stop from one area until that gets pushed out. I typically blow down the stack when this happens. The stacks have a small rubber rubber disc at the bottom that creates a real bottleneck and can easily get plugged with condensation. It will usually occur within minutes of running. I usually remove these rubber pieces and they operate better, but it still happens depending on humidity.

It doesnt sound to me like this behavior is related to anything electrical but rather the physical limitations of the pulsed smoke units and the normal problems that all of them have.

 

[stevedenver]

Eureka!
I am delighted to have this info.
Any trick to removing said rubber ring?

 

[Diesel2000]

Eureka!
I am delighted to have this info.
Any trick to removing said rubber ring?

If the stack is removable you can just twist it and get to it, otherwise you need to open up the loco shell and perhaps remove the smoke unit if its mounted to the shell. If its on the base then you should see the ring on top of the diffuser.