Graphite Paste... Worth It?

stevelewis said:
Madman said:
For those that don't feel like soldering jumper wires across rail joints, for whatever reason. I wonder how much difference in voltage drop there might be between track with soldered jumpers, and track with graphite, or what have you, paste at the rail joints????:thinking:
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Some years ago ( Mid 80s) A magazine had an article where this very subject was raised! It was just about the time thst LBG introduced Graphite Paste............

Test were carried out on an established garden line with soldered jumper cables and a line that was simply connected with standard fishplates ( rail joiners)

The voltage drop was found to be very similar, no real advantage was shown from the soldered joint line tests were doen in varying weather conditions ( dry warm days , wet warm days, cold weather etc)
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For those who feel they MUST bond their joints, the job can be made a bit simpler ( less soldering ie only 1 not 2 soldering connections per rail length) by adopting a method that some 0 gauge fans use:

A small hole is drilled thro' the "thin part" of the rail section usually half way along its length, thro' this hole a bared cable end is passed and secured by twisting the bared wires UNDER!! the rail, the hole and the twisted cable is then soldered......this makes for a far more secure soldered joint than simply soldering a cable to the rail........
The cable connection is then connected to the next cable on the next rail section and so on & so forth!!

Uses more cable obviously but makes for a secure power transmission system, I personally wouldnt bother having been quite happy with the rail joiners over the years!!:thumbup:
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I have used the drilled hole method, although not on all of my track. It does indeed make soldered connection more secure, and it seems to make the solder flow better, than just scarifying the side of the rail with a Dremel tool.
 
On the H&MGR I have used Aristo-craft track with the grubscrews through the fishplates, installed without grease. Railclamps at turnouts. But I also installed jumper wires to most sections of track using the little screws found under the Aristo-craft track. A lot more work and who knows if it has made a difference, but coming up to 4½ years operation with no problems.
Another local railway laid several years before our railway with LGB track and a little blob of LGB conductive grease has had ongoing conductivity issues. Slowly the railway is having the track lifted and cleaned then either grub screws install through the fishplates or railclamps installed.
I think it is yet another of those "one size does not fit all" situations. Local conditions will have different effects the same method. Careful work in any method will outlast the same method laid in haste.
But for me the extra cost and time at the start is worth the effort to ensure reliable hence enjoyable running down the track.
I think if just using fishplates, ensuring they are tight when laid, as others mentioned above, is very important and I would hazard a guess that is why some have success with fishplates and others don't.
Phew, sorry that was a long reply -are you still there :rolleyes:
 
On the ALR I have used graphite paste at all joints; I've used Hillman rail clamps at intervals around the track (not every joint, to allow some expansion/contraction "wiggle-room"). I do tend to use the replacement clamps, rather than the over-the-fishplate style. This makes removal of strategic pieces of track (points, the length through the tunnel) more straightforward.

No significant electrical issues over 7 years; mind you, I have used plenty of feeder wires to the track. These also use the Hillman track feed connectors, (I dislike/struggle with soldering). Again, electrical performance has been good.
 
On my recent built I used my bench grinder to grind away some old pliers apart from the tips. This allowed me to squeeze the joiners very tight by being able to reach around the rail profile... I have far too little patience and time (and am a disaster with a soldering iron) to bond things...
 
I'm a little surprised that so many say they have trouble with soldering. There are just two goldern rules; "cleanliness is next to Godliness", and "enough heat". Fall down on either of these and you WILL stuggle. Heat is a bigger problem outside, as things are colder and there is usually a draft which saps it quicker than anything, so use a BIG iron. 25watts just wont cut it on rail.
 
Consider Dielectric grease as an option to graphite paste. It is specifically designed to promote conductivity in mechanical automobile distributors and eliminate problems caused by moisture. It is available at most auto supply stores and comes in a convenient can with a narrow nozzle for application, so there is no mess. Also, because it doesn't have the name LGB on the container, I suspect it is far less expensive.

I used about 1/4" of the grease at each standard LGB railjoiner, and it has been in place for about 6 years without a problem.

The grease seals the joint, keeps dirt out, makes a very good electrical contact and as I've already found, is easy to clean.

This year, because of a drainage problem, I'll be reconfiguring my entire layout and will use the dielectric grease again. There is still enough grease from the original can for about 170 feet of track.



Good luck.
 
Bobg- I was only tying to solder last night with a 25w- but only small wires internally in a loco. I seem to have to hold the iron for so long to get the needed heat it all goes wrong... sorry for the thread drift. May well google "how to solder" though!
 
thumper said:
Consider Dielectric grease as an option to graphite paste. It is specifically designed to promote conductivity in mechanical automobile distributors and eliminate problems caused by moisture. It is available at most auto supply stores and comes in a convenient can with a narrow nozzle for application, so there is no mess. Also, because it doesn't have the name LGB on the container, I suspect it is far less expensive.

I used about 1/4" of the grease at each standard LGB railjoiner, and it has been in place for about 6 years without a problem.

The grease seals the joint, keeps dirt out, makes a very good electrical contact and as I've already found, is easy to clean.

This year, because of a drainage problem, I'll be reconfiguring my entire layout and will use the dielectric grease again. There is still enough grease from the original can for about 170 feet of track.



Good luck.
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Dilectric means insulated. Dielectric grease itself is non conductive. It is a a sealer to keep moisture and dirt out of contacts, hence its automotive use on sparkplug boots, bulb sockets, etc.

In this way it is not the same as graphite paste, which is conductive.

The problem I have seen in a few cases with dilectric grease is when it does get hot, it can "thin", and spread into a joint and cause a lack of connectivity. This was especially true in some situations with battery connections or even if it worked into the inside of a relay.

But yes, you can buy graphite paste from other sources than Lehmann/Marklin:

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/2VFF3?cm_mmc=Google Base-_-Lubrication-_-Lubricants-_-2VFF3
 
No problem, I had one problem with Dielctric grease getting where it should not back in my wrenching days, the recovery of the car was out of my pocket.

Learned a lot as a Mercedes Benz apprentice, especially why I don't do it anymore!
 
Re:Graphite Paste... Worth It? Soldering jumpers

RESISTANCE soldering may be the solution when soldering jumpers, but you will need one that offers up to 200 watts.

Only the area of the probe is heated, and it is heated very quickly. The higher wattage is required because of the size of the rail, but since heat is applied for only a few seconds, plastic ties should be safe.
 
Garrett, you are correct regading conductivity of dielectric grease. My good fortune must have been from a good mechanical connection first and the grease simply kept it clean and moisture free.

Regards,

Will
 
True.

The other bit for soldering, and having done this before, is to use heat sinks. One thing one could do with the rails is put vice grips (not sure what you call them in the UK, but they are locking pliers) on either side of the joint.
 
One thing one could do with the rails is put vice grips (not sure what you call them in the UK, but they are locking pliers) on either side of the joint.
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We do call 'em Vice Grips, or Mole Grips, here as well mate! It could also be prudent to have a wet cloth or a water filled spray bottle handy to draw the heat when the job is done.
 
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