Graphite Paste... Worth It?

[Dylanlewis2000]

As title really... I am soon to be putting track down in the garden, and with some luck i dont want to be touching it for a good number of years to come. To ensure electrical continuity i was wondering if i should put something inbetween the rail joiners to keep out the dirt and muck.

I have seen Graphite paste advertised but i dont know if i should stick with something like copper grease. What does everyone think?

 

[bobg]

Well I'm certainly not everyone, but for what it's worth, IMHO copper-slip will not guarantee a permanent connection, the copper in it may be conductive but the grease containing it certaily isn't. The situation with graphite grease is very similar.

Sealing the joint with silicon grease will exclude the air and maintain whatever connection is there, by restricting corrosion, but expansion and contraction of the rail will cause movement in the joint that could, at some stage, still break continuity.

The best way is to 'strap' the joint by soldering a flexible cable across it. That of course could well be a long winded process. Unfortunatey, like most things in life "you pays your money and takes your choice".

 

[Martino]

Personally, I'd ditch the rail joiners and use rail clamps although this will add to the expense. However they are much better than joiners (fishplates), last longer and are easy to adjust/tighten and maintain.

Some folks swear by the LGB graphite paste stuff and I have to confess to putting a blob of this in my rail clamps!

Naturally strapping the joint with wire is excellent for conductivity - and if you're a wiz with soldering iron it's easy. Does nothing for lining up track though, and I guess moving things around takes more time.

As Bobg says, 'you pays your money......"

 

[Spule 4]

Personally, I'd ditch the rail joiners and use rail clamps although this will add to the expense. However they are much better than joiners (fishplates), last longer and are easy to adjust/tighten and maintain.

Some folks swear by the LGB graphite paste stuff and I have to confess to putting a blob of this in my rail clamps!

My method too, clamps and an OLD tube of LGB graphite paste.

I thought I could just ditch the Aristocraft joiners (they tend to shatter on their own) and keep the LGB, but no dice. I developed dead spots.

Expensive? Not really, enough for my entire railway would be less than a loco, and would far outweigh any frustration of ill performance

 

[Madman]

I too, am a die hard believer in soldering jumpers at every rail joint. I'd rather sweat up front, than sweat later looking for dead spots.

 

[casey jones snr]

Rail clamps and graphite paste a good combination. We use this method on the CFR. Its very reliable. Not quite the belt and braces method of jumper wires.

 

[stevelewis]

This subject comes up quite often!

I use it ........... have done since it was first marketed by LGB,

You dont need much per joiner Just a pea sized ( Petit pois!!) blob.

I also use it to seal the screw connector holes on rain exposed things like point motors to keep the moisture out.

It seem expensive but a tube last a L O N G time beleive me, I am using my 2nd tube in about 8 yrs!¬!

Some recommend Copperslip due to the initial cost saving, but I feel the convenience of the small nozzled LGB product makes it easy to apply....

I have never bothered to use rail clamps, I have had LGB track in situ for many years at previous address
without problems!!

Actually a little movement withn the rail joint of the rail end as a loco passes over enhances the continued electrical conductivity by cleaning off any buld up of corrosion.
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There was a thread just recently re soldering the rail joints, I tried this once many years ago, I did a few but gave up as it was a tedious job, and it was found that after exposure to the weather extremes winter /Summer many joints failed anyway!! since then I have never bothered and have never regretted it!

 

[jacobsgrandad]

I started by soldering jumpers. Gave it up because I am by nature bone idle and that was hard work. Since then all my track has been laid with the proverbiable tiny blob of grease. So far, with one electrical connectionto my massoth controller, have had no failures over a track lengh in excess of 100 yards. I've probably been liucky, but I am happy wit the way I went. My intention was to soldder jumpers on any joint that failed so at least I could spread the work out. I'll wait and see

 

[Bram]

I have used Graphite Grease on my rail joiners and screws (Aristo track). Never had a problem

 

[ntpntpntp]

As SteveLewis said, this topic has come up a few times here on GSC (and previously on GSM).

I use a little graphite paste (not LGB branded) as a moisture/dirt seal in fishplates. I stuck my multimeter in a blob and it registered no current flow at all, therefore I don't believe it has any conductive properties. Did the same with some CopperSlip (and some Halfords equivalent) and got the same result - no conductivity. Can't comment on the genuine LGB paste though as I don't have any of that.

So far the most I've had to do is remove one short straight, tighten up the loose fishplates with pliers and re-fit to cure a slight drop on the far side of my line furthest from the power feed.

I've not yet found the need to solder bonding wiring across rail joints, though a couple of friends have. No doubting it will give benefit but it's a lot of effort.

 

[stevelewis]

I think the main advantage of the graphite paste is that it keeps water out and prevents non-conductive corrosion forming.

USAT also sell a similar product in a tub rather than tube.

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When LGB first launched their Graphite paste it came in a screw top metal tub, was a bit messy in use, much prefer the tube format

 

[beavercreek]

Have used the paste to just stop corrosion and also squeezed the fishplate joiners with long nose pliers prior to joining to make a tighter grip when. The paste makes it easier for the 'tighter' fishplates to fit onto the rail. So far the only problem that I have had is on all the joints where I did not do this method! As problems arise I use over-joiner clamps of various makes (Hillman, Splitjaw and San-VAl)and they all do the business and also I use some paste on them to keep corosion at bay - some clampers, on another thread or forum, have spoken about corroded clamps 'splitting'. If only this were true of parking clamps

 

[Geoff the garden nav]

Has any one tried silver based conductive grease? http://www.cool-amp.com/index.html http://www.gscalecentral.net/conducto_lube.html < Link To Conducto-Lube Silver Lubricant (part # 240-200) Reduces Resistance!
"A lubricant made with pure silver, provides electrical and thermal conductivity, lubrication and protection". this sounds as though it might actually conduct and though expensive a small pot would probably last a life time!

Geoff the garden navvie

 

[Madman]

For those that don't feel like soldering jumper wires across rail joints, for whatever reason. I wonder how much difference in voltage drop there might be between track with soldered jumpers, and track with graphite, or what have you, paste at the rail joints????:thinking:

 

[stevelewis]

For those that don't feel like soldering jumper wires across rail joints, for whatever reason. I wonder how much difference in voltage drop there might be between track with soldered jumpers, and track with graphite, or what have you, paste at the rail joints????:thinking:

Some years ago ( Mid 80s) A magazine had an article where this very subject was raised! It was just about the time thst LBG introduced Graphite Paste............

Test were carried out on an established garden line with soldered jumper cables and a line that was simply connected with standard fishplates ( rail joiners)

The voltage drop was found to be very similar, no real advantage was shown from the soldered joint line tests were doen in varying weather conditions ( dry warm days , wet warm days, cold weather etc)
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For those who feel they MUST bond their joints, the job can be made a bit simpler ( less soldering ie only 1 not 2 soldering connections per rail length) by adopting a method that some 0 gauge fans use:

A small hole is drilled thro' the "thin part" of the rail section usually half way along its length, thro' this hole a bared cable end is passed and secured by twisting the bared wires UNDER!! the rail, the hole and the twisted cable is then soldered......this makes for a far more secure soldered joint than simply soldering a cable to the rail........
The cable connection is then connected to the next cable on the next rail section and so on & so forth!!

Uses more cable obviously but makes for a secure power transmission system, I personally wouldnt bother having been quite happy with the rail joiners over the years!!

 

[Glengrant]

Oh, this old chestnut, no disrespect intended. As some of you will have sussed out I have a relatively small line, max dogbone length about 40', so there isn't an awful lot of track to cover. Most of you will know that I haven't much of a clue when it comes to electrical engineering. I thought electricity was like a tap, you just turn it on and it comes out. So what am I getting at? Despite advice to the contrary, I only use fishplates, no grease, no soldered joins. I very occasionally, especially in the spring reopening, might have to go round with a hammer and screwdriver and tap the odd fishplate, they do move, but that is all. Voltage drop? I honestly don't know. After a few days of bad weather I have a little erratic running but after a couple of circuits everything falls back into place and away we go. Maybe things would be better if I used grease, or soldered the joins, but I have too many other things to do. The important thing is, I would say, whatever you are going to do, do it now before you lay the track, and that goes for other things, e.g. buried wiring, do these things first

 

[bobg]

The important thing is, I would say, whatever you are going to do, do it now before you lay the track, and that goes for other things, e.g. buried wiring, do these things first

Probably the best common sense on this thread, As I said earlier "you pays your money and you takes your choice". It's horses for courses, or iron horses for railroads in our case. Giddy-up Tonto!

 

[Spule 4]

The old LGB technical book (0026 N) from the 1980s shows the soldered wire method. Forgot about it until I saw it in the book yesterday.

 

[Philbahn]

I use copper-slip . the railways been laid for Six years and it servers me well. may well be a cause for bonding but I don't think it's necessary (four joints for each length of rail)

 

[stevedenver]

this is my 2 cents
one  critical factor is nice tight joiners

with nice tight new joiners on lgb track and a pea size bit of graphite paste

-and relatively stable track

-the conductivity is excellent-

my now defunct garden line had track in place for 9 years on the simple oval and passing track-no issues re conductivity

while graphite is not a conductor-it becomes one under mechancial pressure-the goop prevents corrosion but more importantly tiny grit and micro sized soil bits from entering the joiners