forming cobblestones....

[tramcar trev]

Attached I have a drawing of the gauge and scrapers I'm going to make to help make my tramway.....
Now the problem is that I'd like to make the surface resemble cobblestones and thought one way to do it would be excatly the same as they do in real life in Australia (I'm sure its used elsewhere) and that is to press carefully into the wet surface of the road making compound aka flexible floor tile adhesive mixed to a stiffer consistency with a rubber "stamp" after suitable coloured oxides have been scattered across the surface. This gives a very realistic effect when dry and will be totally weather proof, fade proof etc. I have made a crown between the tracks and also have made provision for the track to stick about a millimetre higher than the surface...
Problem: anyone know of a source of sheets of plastic cobblestones that I could use to make my rubber "stamps"?

 

[Dtsteam]

Its a very good idea - thanks for posting the dimensioned drawings.

In the UK, the track was surfaced with setts, which may be easier to replicate than cobbles. Strictly speaking, cubes were used between the rails, so anything that wiold give a grid of square gap lines may suffice.

 

[trammayo]

Hi Trev - I'd seen what you wanted but couldn't remember where, so had to drop out of Forum to search. Steve at Back to Bay sells embossed sheets - one of them is a brick sheet which looks irregular enough to replicate granite setts - which will be the same the world over. The joints look deep enough to be effective too. You should be able to make a decent mould.

Personally, I would use portland cement and a fine sand. Equally, I would use strip wood as a former for the groove and hold it place with a long life masking tape. Put the tape on the centre facing side of the wood and fold it over the top and on to the rail head - this keeps the rail head clean any any adhesive residue can be removed easily.

Alter you profile gauge so that it use the outside edge of the rails to guide it. The only reason I am saying all this is I can see problems with lateral displacement when you try and emboss the setts.

You can get coloured pigments fot the mortar or you can paint it (most, if not all, concrete roof tiles are painted) although the only problem with painting is you need the mortar to cure.

And David - I can't recollect many UK or colonial tramways using square (or cube) setts - although Blackpool used/uses paving slabs on the prom. General use of cube setts was for Continental paving and is typical semi-circular sweeps which is the arc prescriped by the Paviour's reach as he sat on his one-legged stool!

Mick

 

[Bram]

I think you may find that Birmingham did when they had trams

 

[Dtsteam]

And David - I can't recollect many UK or colonial tramways using square (or cube) setts - although Blackpool used/uses paving slabs on the prom. General use of cube setts was for Continental paving and is typical semi-circular sweeps which is the arc prescriped by the Paviour's reach as he sat on his one-legged stool!

Mick

Duly noted, Mick. My understanding was that setts were rectangular and that they were more highly dressed than cobbles. The cubes comment came from Torquay, which I now find used hardwood blocks in the early days. The flagged track at Blackpool will sonn be gone for good, but hopefully the cushioned track replacing it will be a bit quieter !

 

[dragon]

Google 'slatersplasticard.' They do a range of plastic moulded sheets.

 

[Rob s]

Genuine Birmingham Cobble stones (a few are from Tettenhall Station)
all [strike]collected[/strike] rescued from the spoil, when supervising excavations in the highway over the years where the old tram ways ran or siding as at Tettenhall

(they were destined for the tip in the back of grab lorries)

Definitely square 51/2x51/2 or 6x6 inch any chipped ones were damaged by the machine bucket

Very heavy 40max at a time tried 50 but this had the back of a Mondeo estate on its bump stops

 

[DoctorM]

Nice bit of 12" : 1ft modelling there Rob!

 

[Rob s]

Nice bit of 12" : 1ft modelling there Rob!

Thanks seemed a shame to send them to the tip, then found i had a couple of thousand collected over 20 years, spent the last 2 years, finding good use for them.

One side is to stand the girls on too wash them down after there walkies.
The other will (fingers crossed) have a little end to end with a few buildings, on it just out side the patio doors, might be wishfull :thinking:
But you never know, just need a Loco called Annie to keep some one happy

Would have loved to have seen them down, with the Trams running, sadly all we ever found were small remnants of the track not dug up for scrap, i have a piece of track (14" long) some where around, was going to build it in to the cobbles but forgot when we were doing the work

 

[tramcar trev]

Having slept on this I may actually turn the profile up in the lathe and put it in a small frame and roll the groove and surface impressions on...... Apply the material and wait for it to skin then run the roller with the profile machined into it along the track, the excess being forced out under the sleepers.....
The reason I'm going to use the cement based floor tile adhesive ( the stuff is a dry powder and it's mixed with water) is that it is flexible and self coloured ie grey with black flecks through it so it would self replicate granite setts. I like the idea of covering the track with masking tape first....
In Sydney the roads were surfaced with timber blocks on end each piece was 10"x4" by 5"long.... this must have been very slippery when wet, later the blocks were covered in apsphalt but when removed were sold as a a fuel for both domestic fires and some were even used in the boilers of the Harbour Ferries....

I'm not trying to set any standards with my dimensions, it's just that when I had a fiddle with it this looked good....The groove is far deeper than would be in full scale but it will allow dirt somewhere to go... I'm going to build a working scrubber car to clean the track, not sure how to clean the overhead yet. The HF cleaning solution is going to be "too hard" in this scale...

this one looks a good prototype....

 

[Rob s]

Hi Trev

All the ones we dug up had been, put down on a layer of granite chips/cement mix, with bitumen poured in the joints, jet black when exposed and giving an almost flush finish with the top of the cobbles.

One of the old boys recond it was to allow for expansion/contraction, as the Tar would have been flexible.

 

[gregh]

Keven King at Bargo NSW has many embossed sheets. Look at this link, maybe something will suit you.
http://www.pamakhobbies.com/Products/Exclusive.html

 

[trammayo]

The flagged track at Blackpool will sonn be gone for good, but hopefully the cushioned track replacing it will be a bit quieter !

I suppose the beauty of the flags was easier access for track repairs and far quicker than setts.

You mention wood block paving - I seem to remember some wood paving at Stanningley where the Leeds/Bradford boundary was (or near) I think they lasted until the late 60's when a flash flood dislodged them.

I remember the "silent" paving at the side(and underneath) the Queen's Hoyel, City Square providing access to the goods (Postal?) side of the station. It was made of rubber blocks to silence the cart wheels. It may even be still there.

Mick

 

[trammayo]

It looks like you have set (no pun intended) yourself quite a task and I look forward to seeing your progress. My garden line was going to be a tramway (mainly sleeper track) and, apart from the odd model never progressed beyond making a couple of traction poles and planting one which is developing rust.

I like your avatar. Always been fascinated by it by it since I saw it on "Down the Line".

Mick

 

[bobg]

The cubes comment came from Torquay, which I now find used hardwood blocks in the early days. The flagged track at Blackpool will sonn be gone for good, but hopefully the cushioned track replacing it will be a bit quieter !

It was common practice to use wood blocks between the rails (and sometimes elsewhere), not cobbles/setts. In the wet they were absolutely lethal for cyclists/motorcyclists, giving virtually no grip at all. They looked a bit like setts at first glance but with a much flatter surface (endgrain).

 

[The Devonian]

Mention of the tramway system in Torquay, which in the main, used wooden blocks/sets.

In initially, due to the fact that the residents of Torquay did not want unsightly overhead wiring in the town, the Dolter system of electrified plates, laid between the running rails, was adopted. I believe Hastings and Mexborough were two other systems which tried this system.

In Torquay it only lasted a short number of years before conventional overhead was installed. The failure was due to corrosion by salt in the air and the sea spray plus quite a few horses were sadly, electrocuted. I would think that the close proximity of Dartmoor meant wood blocks may have been replaced, in some areas, by granite cobbles or sets.

For anyone running a tramway system and who does not want to install overhead catenary might choose to model the Dolter system.

 

[themole]

Milliput rolled out and pressed with a brass cobble mould is water proof and by brushing with black shoe polish gives a very good representation of sets. Alyn

 

[jacobsgrandad]

Now that is good!

 

[tramcar trev]

Milliput rolled out and pressed with a brass cobble mould is water proof and by brushing with black shoe polish gives a very good representation of sets. Alyn

That is impressive... excatly what I'm trying to achieve... but will I?

 

[tramcar trev]

I like your avatar. Always been fascinated by it by it since I saw it on "Down the Line".

Mick

Yes, it's quite a trip.... last year when I revisited Normanton I had a mate with me he is going to build some AEC (1936 design) railcars in HO... It's just amazing that it could exist in this century.... It was hilarious though while we were there a a film Crew from Germany were there stayning in the same Caravan park and one morning we awoke to discover we had a new PM... the poor Germans could not comprehend how we as Aussies could allow this to happen a "red Head Female Prime Minister living in sin with a gay hairdresser" that Australia for you we said....