Forced Perspective in Backscenes

[dunnyrail]

In the June Model Railroader (yes I know it is mostly for small indoor Railways but we can always learn from others) there were a few articles about Backdrops etc. One that particularly cought my eye was the Title of this thread. In particular Artists use the principle if ‘Disappearing Points’ to make their Pictures appear Larger. This captured my imagination as I have lots of places in my Sheds that are Scenic with little more than an inch or two to make the illusion. Conning the eye floats my boat seriously so I thought that I may give some of the techniques a go. In truth I have used a couple of the tricks in the past but there were a lot of options given in this Mag.

So first up I decided to play around with my iPad on Penultimate to see if I could get this to work.

So here is my Wagon Works at Gernrode.
Here I have done lines to infinity and filled with Black, though it does not match the roof colour doing this then repainting the front to match in shows the possibilities.
Next up my Loco Shed. This is barely an inch deep.
I think this shows the effect much better as I have shaded the original to be the same colour, perhaps I will go a little further into the distance when I do it for real.I am very pleased with what a little experimentation has given me, these will be done first then I will go into the other Shed to see what I can achieve at Alexisbad and Harzegerode 1/2 relief and near flats..

 

[David1226]

It definitely works but you will need to practice to get to this standard, a scene from the remarkable Dutch diorama layout 'Ijsselstein Diorama' by Peter Dillen, displayed at the Warley National Model Railway Exhibition, NEC, Birmingham, 25.11.2017



David

 

[NathanO]

I know a number of model railroaders that have used smaller scale buildings to create a distant look on their layout.

One well known one here in San Antonio, TX, Bob Clarke, had an On3 layout that had a loop of HO scale track at the top of a hill. His On3 train would go behind the hill and an HO train would run around the loop out of a tunnel and back into another tunnel. Then the On3 train would come out of a tunnel and back to the yard.

Nathan

 

[Slawman]

As a point of interest, I purchased a few of my buildings from an FX guy who was filming a movie in Sydney (I think one of the Superman movies). They had created a number of dioramas using a few different scale buildings and structures (smaller in the back) to create entirely convincing forced perspective scenes.

There are some great publications on Special effects tips and tricks which can be applied very easily if you are interested.

That Dutch diorama is great. I assume the tram on the bridge is a G scale (moving) model?

 

[dunnyrail]

I sadly am not in any position to think about buildings in different scales due to the lack of space where I am going to try these tricks. Oh for another 2 or so feet of width all round in my Sheds, would certainly not have any more Sidings, perhaps longer ones but not much.

 

[dave snape]

thereis a layout which is a london underground layout which i saw at the n,e,c. which is oo at the front and n scale at the back. but is very cleverly done so it looks like the n scale is oo in the distance

 

[gregh]

In the June Model Railroader (yes I know it is mostly for small indoor Railways but we can always learn from others) there were a few articles about Backdrops etc. One that particularly cought my eye was the Title of this thread. In particular Artists use the principle if ‘Disappearing Points’ to make their Pictures appear Larger. This captured my imagination as I have lots of places in my Sheds that are Scenic with little more than an inch or two to make the illusion. Conning the eye floats my boat seriously so I thought that I may give some of the techniques a go. In truth I have used a couple of the tricks in the past but there were a lot of options given in this Mag.
........
Next up my Loco Shed. This is barely an inch deep.
I think this shows the effect much better as I have shaded the original to be the same colour, perhaps I will go a little further into the distance when I do it for real.I am very pleased with what a little experimentation has given me, these will be done first then I will go into the other Shed to see what I can achieve at Alexisbad and Harzegerode 1/2 relief and near flats..

I wish I had some artistic skills for painting backgrounds. I don’t have access to Model Railroader, but a few hours searching on the web gave me the basic ideas about perspective (I hope – I’m sure many of you know lots more than me about this.)

This was a helpful site for me. Can someone tell me how to insert a plain text link? Everything I try displays this linked page.

https://crispy-ghee.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F42009835585

So I took a copy of Dunnyrail’s engine shed pic (without permission - please say it is OK) and I then extended the ‘long’ lines of the rails and wagon sides to infinity to get the ‘vanishing point’ - the white lines here. The blue line is the where the horizon would be for a flat foreground. ( It also is the height above the baseboard where the camera was situated.)


(I used MS Paint, not because it is good, but because I know it and it is simple.)

Then all the roof lines you want to paint must also lead to that point. To get this projection, I drew the 3 black lines and just arbitrarily picked points half way between the shed front and vanishing point on the 3 lines – small black crosses.


Then I filled in the roof colour.


and maybe then you could add some detail inside the shed


But this perspective view will only look ‘correct’ for viewers at about the same location as the camera was. This is the problem for trying to put a 3D building up against a 2D background.

My preference would be to try and avoid roads/rails leading into the backscene unless the viewing location was restricted to one spot.

 

[korm kormsen]

some of my first crude buildings were intentions of using forced perspectives.
in the pic are shown two, with 1:24 openings at their front, and 1:45 at the back. the buildings being only 4" deep.
to accentuate this in the left building are a 1:29 figure at the front, and a 1:45 figure at the back.
floorboards and freight boxes i built along the lines given by the four corners of front- and backdoor.

(not shown in this pic) another four inch behind the backwalls i had a 1:87 background wildwest streetscene with some H0 figures glued in front of it.

if it hadn't been built so sloppy, it would have been a satisfactory illusion of much space.

 

[Henri]

It definitely works but you will need to practice to get to this standard, a scene from the remarkable Dutch diorama layout 'Ijsselstein Diorama' by Peter Dillen, displayed at the Warley National Model Railway Exhibition, NEC, Birmingham, 25.11.2017

View attachment 239240

David

That is a remarkable layout. Even the tram models are made in perspective. For me this is going waaay too far.

Another example is the diorama in De Efteling. A huge layout and in the early days the front scenes were in H0 while the background scenes were in N. As a kid I already found that very odd. It didn’t look right.

 

[dunnyrail]

I wish I had some artistic skills for painting backgrounds. I don’t have access to Model Railroader, but a few hours searching on the web gave me the basic ideas about perspective (I hope – I’m sure many of you know lots more than me about this.)

This was a helpful site for me. Can someone tell me how to insert a plain text link? Everything I try displays this linked page.

https://crispy-ghee.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F42009835585

So I took a copy of Dunnyrail’s engine shed pic (without permission - please say it is OK) and I then extended the ‘long’ lines of the rails and wagon sides to infinity to get the ‘vanishing point’ - the white lines here. The blue line is the where the horizon would be for a flat foreground. ( It also is the height above the baseboard where the camera was situated.)

View attachment 239908
(I used MS Paint, not because it is good, but because I know it and it is simple.)

Then all the roof lines you want to paint must also lead to that point. To get this projection, I drew the 3 black lines and just arbitrarily picked points half way between the shed front and vanishing point on the 3 lines – small black crosses.
View attachment 239909

Then I filled in the roof colour.
View attachment 239910

and maybe then you could add some detail inside the shed
View attachment 239911

But this perspective view will only look ‘correct’ for viewers at about the same location as the camera was. This is the problem for trying to put a 3D building up against a 2D background.

My preference would be to try and avoid roads/rails leading into the backscene unless the viewing location was restricted to one spot.

Hi Greg,
Very happy for you to use my efforts to give you and the rest of us additional ideas. In truth the Loco shed only gets viewed at prett well one angle as the shed is so tight for space that it is not possible to get much difference in viewpoint. Hence the efforts work. Have been trying to get some pics of the inside of the real location to paste inside the wall of the shed. Only ones I have are at the wrong angle sadly so need to visit Germany again! Every time I go these days I have a list of Pics to take for my line.

But just but I may be able to use your methods for an inside, roundtoit time again me thinks!

 

[gregh]

some of my first crude buildings were intentions of using forced perspectives.
in the pic are shown two, with 1:24 openings at their front, and 1:45 at the back. the buildings being only 4" deep.
to accentuate this in the left building are a 1:29 figure at the front, and a 1:45 figure at the back.
floorboards and freight boxes i built along the lines given by the four corners of front- and backdoor.

You're a very clever man, Korm.