Electronic Mystery Please Help... Battery 2095

[CoggesRailway]

Hi All,
Ok as many ideas as you can....

I have a 2095 converted to battery power using a cliff barker control system and sound.

I have a master power switch from where the lights/barker/sound are all powered from the non battery side. The sound has another inline off switch...

So occasionally it (barker unit/sound/lights all separate circuits) just doesn't come on at all. The battery is good with full power and is charging fine. Today it would not come on - totally dead on all three circuits.

Just now I took the top off and toggled the switch a few times dead as a doornail. then left it on the bench while doing something else. Then all of sudden the engine noise starts, lights come on and its all fine?!??!?

It would seems the master switch is randomly turning on/off. but it is just a mini toggle mechanical switch you see at maplin - it is in fact the switch whatlep fitted when he did the original conversion. i'm stumped.

is my logic right - it must be the switch as all three circuits work or not randomly - but together?? can such a switch behave this way?

 

[Madman]

The short answer is yes. Either the contacts inside of the switch are faulty or one of the soldered connections to the switch could be loose.
One thing you mentioned has raised a question however. You mentioned the sound and lights were powered from the non-battery side. Would you elaborate on that?

 

[CoggesRailway]

Thanks Dan. I think I shall replace the switch.

In answer to your question the battery is connected to the switch (with a fuse between the battery live and the switch) and the three separate circuits coming from the other side of the switch - LED lighting, Sound Card, and RC board. They are either all on or all off but not as per the switch?!?!? I just don't see how a mechanical switch could behave like this but I am going to swop it and see.

 

[Dave Hub]

Hi Ian.

I just fitted a C. barker system. I had similar problem with the switch I uese. Clicked it into place and no power. Pushed it a touch more and there was power. I released the switch and It would go back to the place it should work and no power.

I replaced the switch all now works until I crash becauseI can't drive.

 

[mmts]

I replaced the switch all now works until I crash becauseI can't drive.

Mmmm I seem to recall your little darlings caused a crash and would be checking all the soldered joints and be investing in a new switch

 

[Gizzy]

Switches can spark internally*, and this causes pitting of the contacts. This pitting and the resultant dirt/soot can cause the intermittant symptoms you describe.

As mentioned, the best solution is to replace the switch, although you can buy an aerosol switch cleaner which does help keep the contacts clean....

(*This sparking is the reason the Gas suppliers tell you NOT to switch any electrical appliances ON or OFF should you smell gas!)

 

[whatlep]

Ian - I think Madman's analysis is probably right. Before replacing the switch, have a look at the soldered joints to make sure they are not loose and -even if they look OK - spend 30 seconds rehetaing them to make sure all the connections are nice and solid.

 

[CoggesRailway]

Many thanks all for the help. I have swopped the switch, simplfying the joint by joining the three circuits away from the switch terminals - all behaving fine now. You learn something every day.

Dave particularly pleased to hear someone else had the same issue.

One last question do these little maplin toggles cope with 14.4v? maybe I need a chunkier one?

Peter - I had unsoldered your neat work and bodged my own- even more reason why it was misbehaving...

 

[whatlep]

One last question do these little maplin toggles cope with 14.4v? maybe I need a chunkier one?

The one you have is rated at 250 volts at 3 amps or 150 volts at 5amps. Should cope with 14.4.

 

[minimans]

One thing to watch when soldering these micro switches is not to get the terminals too hot! this will burn the contacts and cause premature failure. make sure you tin the wire and contacts separately then heat and then just join the wire and contacts with enough heat to get a good joint.

 

[yb281]

One thing to watch when soldering these micro switches is not to get the terminals too hot! this will burn the contacts and cause premature failure.

I'm forever doing that with my dodgy soldering "skills". :impatient::impatient:

 

[Rhinochugger]

Yerst, and my recollection is that Ian is thumping a fair bit of current through his set up :impatient::impatient:

 

[GAP]

One thing to watch when soldering these micro switches is not to get the terminals too hot! this will burn the contacts and cause premature failure. make sure you tin the wire and contacts separately then heat and then just join the wire and contacts with enough heat to get a good joint.

Having done a circuit board repair course as part of my trade I can support the this statement and offer the following advice for good soldering technique.
Its "When in doubt Flux it!!", flux aids solder flow and wetting thus reducing the time the iron is in contact with the joint.
With solder joints cleanliness is next to godliness.
Always before putting a tip near a joint wipe it across a wet sponge, this in effect steam cleans it and removes and impurities.
Firstly you can mechanically clean the joint by rubbing it with a pencil eraser (one of those pencil shaped ones made by 'Staedler' if you can find them is perfect) then chemically clean the joint (Isoporol Alchol or meths) then flux followed by solder.
Sounds like a lot of messing around but it is worth it because the shorter time the iron is in contact with the joint the better it will be.
And clean off any residue flux this stops it corroding the joint if it is heated up (flux is a heat activated corrosive whose primary function is to cleas away corrosion and aid solder flow)
As for the switches activating them vigourously a few times can sometimes help remove and arc carbon build up.
I apologise if anybody finds this to technical but I can't think of a simpler description ( maybe its the beers. Nahhh thats not it, It must be my old age kicking in)

 

[Ian Powell]

One thing to watch when soldering these micro switches is not to get the terminals too hot! this will burn the contacts and cause premature failure.

I'm forever doing that with my dodgy soldering "skills". :impatient::impatient:

Yep. Bin there,done that. I have just fitted a Cliff Barker for the first time. Worked beautifully until I wanted to charge the batteries. No power to through the charging side of the switch. Replaced switch, all OK.
Rather suspect my over zealous soldering.

And I must add what great service I received from Mr Barker. One phone call and he told me everything I needed. Just placed another order.

 

[Madman]

I wonder if this is where a resistance solering outfit would be helpful, though a bit expensive.

 

[CoggesRailway]

It's nice to know it's not just me

 

[GTB]

I wonder if this is where a resistance solering outfit would be helpful, though a bit expensive.

They aren't suitable for wiring. Great for sweating metal parts together though eg. fitting brass castings or etchings to an etched brass body.
- you have limited control over temperature. The difference between low melt soldering temperature and silver brazing temperature is about 5 seconds on mine....
- Apart from getting the tip into position, you also have to connect an earth clamp somewhere. They work by passing a lot of amps through the joint, which is not a good idea around solid state devices, especially ICs.

Spend the money on a variable temperature soldering station if you do a lot of wiring. I use a 48W variable temperature soldering station for wiring. Good ones can be expensive, but the chinese ones work well enough for occasional hobby use.

Even if you stay with an ordinary soldering iron don't monkey about with cheap 20W (or less) irons. Use at least 40W for general electrical soldering, as you get much better results by getting in and out quickly with a decent size iron. Little ones have less heat stored in the tip and by the time they heat up the joint to the melting point of solder, the plastic body of the switch is starting to melt.....

Graeme

 

[GTB]

[size=14pt]No need to use a very large wattage iron. 12 to 20 watts mains iron will do.[/size]

Only if it's an Antex, which have a very good design of chisel tip and are temperature controlled.

I used an Antex iron for many years, until the weight of the power cord pulled it off the bench once too many times. Antex have always claimed their 25W iron is equivalent to most 40W irons and mine certainly bore that out in use. I'd have bought another, but they weren't being imported at the time (still hard to find here), so I replaced it with a soldering station.

A cheap 20W iron from the local hardware is pretty useless for fine work, as the conical tip isn't very good at transferring heat and the tip is usually too hot as well. Soldering guns are just an invention of the devil.



Graeme

 

[Madman]

Interesting. I use a butane soldering iron for most of my soldering tasks, including soldering leads to LEDs. I have never lost an LED using this iron, and I know it must get hotter than my 300/140 watt electric soldering gun. It also heats up much quicker than the electric gun. And I like the fine tip for getting into tight places.

 

[UKSGR]

I've installed 3 or 4 of the Cliff Barker systems and very good they are, but the tiny switch supplied for power/charging I find too small to use and have destroyed them with the soldering iron. I now use a slightly larger switch on all the installations.