Electrical continuity

CoggesRailway

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It's a lot of faffing about though isn't it? I suppose my 2 year old (in some stretches) line doesn't really proove anything, but I have it mainly floating on ballast, crimped up lgb joiners and paste, and an underground armoured cable connected to the furthest part of the loop(s) from the primary feed. No drop, not stops. Ha ha here we go again on this thread :D
 

Glengrant

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Well, there it is in post 19, the simple straightforward one hundred percent solution. That's the way I will be going, when the snow stops. Trust the French to come up with a brilliant idea. Oh, what's that, dozens of you are already doing it this way. OK I'm just a bit slow, that's all
 

Rhinochugger

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Glengrant said:
Well, there it is in post 19, the simple straightforward one hundred percent solution. That's the way I will be going, when the snow stops. Trust the French to come up with a brilliant idea. Oh, what's that, dozens of you are already doing it this way. OK I'm just a bit slow, that's all
Nah - Too much like hard work, Cyril.

Aristo track - floating on the ballast, and use rail clamps (after 5 years) where you have to just slide the joiners on if you've cut a piece of track.

And, as ntpntpntp, yes, a length of cooker cable to the furthest point of the loop.

And I'll have a glass of something red :clap::clap::clap:

6f5f2c63fd8143f3bfb9efa04cc2c88d.jpg




:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
 

Tom

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Thanks for all the thoughts and info. I've just gone round the track over the last couple of days and screwed the joins in place as per the pic below. This pic is from my engine shed when I first started this.
IMG_0064.jpg
 

bobg

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49c7dee86947458cadfd2a20cb34493a.jpg


The gospel according to Mr Pritchard, of Pritchards Patent Product Company, or Peco to you. Each section of Flexi comes with one of these jammed into it.

(I hope it's readable.)
 

craigrailinc

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Tom said:
Thanks for all the thoughts and info. I've just gone round the track over the last couple of days and screwed the joins in place as per the pic below. This pic is from my engine shed when I first started this.
IMG_0064.jpg
hi what size of screws did you use? and pilot hole size please?
voltage drops frustrates me I would like to cure it.
 

dragon

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Code number....... MF-ST25 No. 2 x 6.4mm lg Pozi head Countersunk Stainless steel self tappers.

Mine came from Modelfixings.co.uk Very helpful people there. Neil put me on to them. 2mm drill bits required.

Hope this is helpful.
 

minimans

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Just a quick caution, if you do use screws put then in from the OUTSIDE of the rail because on the inside if they stick out just a little the wheel flange is sure to find them! I know this from personal experience.........................
 

craigrailinc

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dragon said:
Code number....... MF-ST25 No. 2 x 6.4mm lg Pozi head Countersunk Stainless steel self tappers.

Mine came from Modelfixings.co.uk Very helpful people there. Neil put me on to them. 2mm drill bits required.

Hope this is helpful.
Very will be looking into this thanks
 

dumpy

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Tom said:
Every year I seem to have to relay sections of track because when the loco meets these sections, the power drops dramatically. Is there anything I can do to improve and maintain good continuity. We are already using brass joiners and graphite paste.
Many thanks,
Tom
This is a post from early this year but it fits with my recent experience though my outside track has survived for 4 years without much maintainance. I came across this wire glue
352a4c1febbd4d5fa0463c8b034a5dd5.jpg

Have tried it on my indoor 00 gauge with great success. Just painted it across near side fishplate and surrounding rail with a cocktail stick.
21cfbc59a1d9478c90a6812928f608fa.jpg

Thought I would give a go across a couple of troublesome joints on the garden railway.
 

tramwayknowledge

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As someone involved in full size electric railways for a living I would say dont rely on the fishplates/rail joiners. Soldering links at each rail joint is good, but the other way we do it is a paralell feeder. Get some old 13a domestic cable, bury it in the cess and cross connect to the track every 3ft or so, that should do it. I did a small elevated line like that in s London and didnt have a problem, intend to do it on my elevated garden line up in Scotland - when I get a chance to do it
 

steven large

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dumpy said:
Tom said:
Every year I seem to have to relay sections of track because when the loco meets these sections, the power drops dramatically. Is there anything I can do to improve and maintain good continuity. We are already using brass joiners and graphite paste.
Many thanks,
Tom
This is a post from early this year but it fits with my recent experience though my outside track has survived for 4 years without much maintainance. I came across this wire glue
images

Have tried it on my indoor 00 gauge with great success. Just painted it across near side fishplate and surrounding rail with a cocktail stick.
images

Thought I would give a go across a couple of troublesome joints on the garden railway.
hi so u mean stir the wire glue and then how?? show me steps picture pls? thks u.....steve.,deafness.
 

bobg

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There is a minor problem with putting screws through all the fishplates. Namely that by so doing the rail becomes one continuous length................good for electricity......................not so good for expansion and contraction. :banghead: :thinking:

Perhaps Mr Pritchard has a point!
 

minimans

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I would agree with the caution if you have the track screwed down to a solid base but if your track floats in ballast (even with it secured with PVA) it doesn't present the same problem. Here in San Francisco bay we get temps as low as 32f up to 110f but it's never been a problem with brass rail.
However now I'm using alloy rail for the live steam circuit screwed to the base board it has become a problem! but solved by only screwing the straight sections and let the curves slide around a bit......................
 

beavercreek

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I use Hillman and a lot of thes ones that are available from ebay seller 'alkramer'. They are a lot cheaper than the Hillman/ other brand of brass jobbies as they are bought in bulk, go over the fishplate and are very effective. Whenever I find a 'bad' patch on original track, that I laid some time back, I pop one of these on and the continuity or power curve is restored. They can also be used to join track without fishplates (you need two sorts of Hillman to do both applications). They are quick and easy to put on and also take off if needs be. The screws are facing up which makes it a lot easier than the Hillman type if your track has obstructions running alongside like walls, rocks, plants, buildings, other track etc.
They do not look pretty as they are shiney but I paint mine and they just fade to the backgound.
Kramer's stainless steel clamps (supplied with stainless steel screws)
08e79975a2864c5e8c25080477c26b2b.jpg
 

mike

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i use hillmans and lately, the massoth ones, along with mulitpull track feeds from a dedicated track feed wireing loop
 

korm kormsen

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i agree, that these clamps make sence for continuity - but they are sooo ugly!
our rails are already too big for our scale. but having a (scaled) 2' by 2' construction around every railjoint just does not look right in my eyes.

therefore i prefer to solder jumperwires on the side away from the observer, where needed.
 

beavercreek

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korm kormsen said:
i agree, that these clamps make sence for continuity - but they are sooo ugly!
our rails are already too big for our scale. but having a (scaled) 2' by 2' construction around every railjoint just does not look right in my eyes.

therefore i prefer to solder jumperwires on the side away from the observer, where needed.
Hi Korm
They are less than 2cm x 2cm (less than 1"x1") and if you paint them they are not noticable. I use the hillmans where appearances matter and these stainless steel ones where they are more hidden. But even in places where they show, the paint soon makes them look like a piece of normal track paraphernalia
 

coyote97

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some thoughts about that, even though i run batterypower (because of those problems, while the voltage drop is a solvable problem...)

ModelRRs use very less voltage.
Electrical power is a product of the factors voltage and current.
That means, the more less the voltage goes, the more currentflow we need to get power.
Currentflow needs high cross-section of contact to work fine. High current is a problem for the "hardware", it would be better to use high voltage and less current.

But for security reasons, we wont use higher voltages. Voltage is, what makes electricity so dangerous.

So we have to compromise.

Voltage drop is calculated out of the following data:
-voltage source (low: so with a source of 18 Volts 2 volts are relatively high "drop-percentage". Using 200 Volts, 2 V drop wont matter...)
current flow
cross section of the line(cable, track, joiners)
length of line
material of line

So, IMO the really first thing to do is to fix the joiners. we need to have as much cross-section space as we can gain. So, a standard joiner may lay only on three or four points, while fixing it with a screw makes some (much bigger)contact-area. Its a question of the weakest point in a chain. And so your problems will always be the weakest and most worn-out joiner u have arround.
Fixing that will make things much better. Some additional paste is fine. It hasnt to be a paste for flowing current. A well fixed joiner just has to be protected against corrosion. There are fine pastes for preventing car-battery-poles. That stuff works very fine.

We cant change the voltage (or better: we shouldnt), so we have to cope with the relatively high current we need for powering our lines.
we can (as told) fix the joiners for getting the weakest points in our supplychain fixed.
The cross-section of our rails are unworthy to think about. Normally, its SO much, that the rail itself makes NO problem at all.
We CAN think about the material of the rails, but because of the high cross-section, rail-material is a question of corrosion, not of voltage drop. Against corrosion, you can use stainless steel rails (hard to work with) or nicle-plated brass rails.

One thing we CAN do is to supply the line with additional wire lines, that dont follow the track. lay it down in your layout the shortest way u can use to reach a supply-point.
Advantages:
1.) shortest way, less length: minimizes the voltage-drop
2.) u can use a high cross-section of cable that is very much better as your track-joiners ever will be.
3.) u have optimized cable-material: copper for best current flow and less voltage drop. (less resistance)
4.) u have less joiners, in the best case u can lay down a wire directly from the source to the track-supply-point.
5.) optimized joining points: when u have to fit wires together, u can do it for WIREFITTING. Tracks have to be - in the first place- tracks. They lay outside in the rain and snow and trains running over them.... Joiners, no matter how good prepared, will ever be the weakest point in the line.

My experiences from my first outside-layouts are:
using standard trackjoiners will give u -sooner or later- a voltage drop after 5, at least 10 sections of track.
fixing the joiners will give you -depending on what track, what fixing technique, what current flow (running a stainz is one thing, running big 4 or 6-headers another...), quality of source.......- a track length of about 7-15m before there is at least a little voltage drop to "feel".

its a good advice to use joiner-fixing AND to supply the line additioanly. Therefor, 5-10m is a tracklength from supply-point to supplypoint that will give u no problems with voltage drops.

Going over high distances out from the source, there WILL be a point where new sources are needed. No matter what fixing or optimizing u use.


Greetings

Frank
 

bobg

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Perhaps the real answer is a mixture of the two. Our track panels are very short compared to full size, so clamping/screwing several together and then a 'bridged joint', and same again, would be the best of both worlds.