Decoder identification

[Airbuspilot]

Hi

How do I identify a decoder in an LGB loco?

I have an LGB Switching Tractor which is unresponsive on both the main and programming track. It is also unresponsive on DC power. I have taken the motor out and it works normally, the electrical pick up is OK.

I assume the decoder probably needs to be replaced. I cannot find any published info for decoder type on this loco other than mfx/DCC sound decoder which I assume is a generic description of decoder type, where would I normally look for this type of information?

Pictures of decoder attached if anyone can help. The only identification is UE1711109B which i Googled but no result. I assume the smaller one is the sound card, presumably I only need to change the large board, at least as a start.

Thanks

Robin


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[PhilP]

The plug-in board is the decoder.
The loco would need a different board plugged in, if it were analogue only. - IF analogue is enabled in the decoder, then it should run on DC.
If it is totally dead, have you tried the switch in all the positions? - If it is connected.

 

[dunnyrail]

The plug-in board is the decoder.
The loco would need a different board plugged in, if it were analogue only. - IF analogue is enabled in the decoder, then it should run on DC.
If it is totally dead, have you tried the switch in all the positions? - If it is connected.

Good call the switch in the cab can often catch the unwary out.

 

[phils2um]

HI Robin,
If it still didn't run after checking the cab switch are you sure everything is plugged in correctly? The decoder needs all 27 pins engaged with the interface board. The pictures you posted also show that the 4 wire harness from the motor block is disconnected, along with the speaker connection. Silly question, did you plug these back in?

The replacement is MLGB No. 55029 if the decoder is indeed dead. It comes with the Ge4/4 II sounds. You will need to get the correct sounds loaded either by the dealer or you can download them yourself with Märklin No. 60971 Decoder Programmer and MLGB No. 55129 Adapter Circuit Board for Decoder Programmer.

 

[Airbuspilot]

Thanks for your replies.

I removed the two plugs from the board to get a clear picture, both plugs replaced prior to assembly.

I didn’t see switches in the cab or near the boards, I will have another look. If there are switches they would not be accessible without a fairly major disassembley of the loco. There is no way to take the roof off for access.

While this is a 28 pin decoder I see one pin has been removed and an insulating pin put into the empty slot, I thought I had solved the problem but decided this must be intentional.

If I understand correctly, to run on DC mode without the decoder requires a plug in adapter which I don’t have. The decoder must be serviceable to allow DC operation, so I cannot test on DC.

Phil, thanks for identifying the decoder, I will look at replacing it if all else fails Which I suspect it has.

Robin

 

[Airbuspilot]

Phil was correct, there is a switch in the cab which i didn't see. I will try again with the switch in different positions.
Robin

 

[Airbuspilot]

I have found the decoder in Phil's message, it comes with a speaker and an interface adapter. I assume the adaptor is for sound programming purposes only and the decoder fits directly onto the existing card in the loco?

Retrofit Sound Decoder | Märklin

Now 32 functions. Max. 10 amps total current. Improved coasting behavior. Volume of the sounds can be set individually. Calibration function for adapting m

www.lgb.com

At the bottom of the LGB page is a suggestion to add a power storage device, I think we have some of these (not sure if there is room). Looking at the notes for the decoder it says simply plug in but doesn't say where? This would be a sensible addition as we do have problems with the small 4 wheel locos.

Robin

 

[Airbuspilot]

HI Robin,
If it still didn't run after checking the cab switch are you sure everything is plugged in correctly? The decoder needs all 27 pins engaged with the interface board. The pictures you posted also show that the 4 wire harness from the motor block is disconnected, along with the speaker connection. Silly question, did you plug these back in?

The replacement is MLGB No. 55029 if the decoder is indeed dead. It comes with the Ge4/4 II sounds. You will need to get the correct sounds loaded either by the dealer or you can download them yourself with Märklin No. 60971 Decoder Programmer and MLGB No. 55129 Adapter Circuit Board for Decoder Programmer.

Hi Phil

Thanks for giving me the decoder info. Not sure if you can answer this, we have several new ZIMO decoders, MX699LS. They have all 28 pins, no missing pin. I can’t find any manuals for this decoder, any chance it could be an equivalent?

Robin

 

[Greg Elmassian]

I'm a bit confused so please bear with me if I ask questions that are not making sense.

So first, it's established that the board shown on the right in post #1 is the decoder.

Can we have a picture of the other side please?

A question, I did not see the model of the loco, but has it been determined if this loco has the common slide switch, or the multiple dip switches or not?
The slide switch is usually in the cab right? But not all modern locos have this.
The multiple dip switches are normally on the main board, but I see none, and my understanding is with these main boards DC or DCC is determined by the board that is plugged in.

The board pictured seems to have enough complexity to be a decoder OR a sound board. Are we sure of what it is?

re: post #4, a 55029 is a sound decoder, I understand it is a MFX decoder, so it should respond to DCC service mode, but don't you want to change CV50 to get it to DCC mode?

Also, the switch in the cab, what position to use should be in the manual, hopefully that was a starting point, getting the manual.

Lastly, the manual for the Zimo decoders are on the Zimo site, and best to ask on the Zimo forum about fitting a MX699LS to this loco, but I'm pretty sure it has been done.

Greg

 

[phils2um]

I assume the adaptor is for sound programming purposes only and the decoder fits directly onto the existing card in the loco?

No, the interface board that comes with the 55029 replacement decoder lets you use the decoder in an older loco without the mtc27 interface. The wires for power in, motor, lights, sound, etc. get soldered to the interface board which the decoder then plugs into. Your loco comes with a mtc27 interface board (the one on the left in your photo.) The decoder does just plug right in.

So first, it's established that the board shown on the right in post #1 is the decoder.

Yes, the board on the left is the loco's mtc27 decoder interface board. This interface board is what's in all MLGB locos since about 2014. (Since the change-over to mfx sound decoders from the old Massoth manufactured decoders which had sockets for wiring on the decoder itself.)

re: post #4, a 55029 is a sound decoder, I understand it is a MFX decoder, so it should respond to DCC service mode, but don't you want to change CV50 to get it to DCC mode?

Like all MLGB mfx decoders it will respond out-of-the-box according to the following digital protocol hierarchy - mfx, DCC address 3, MM address 78 (MM=Märklin Motorola). It should not require any change of CV values to operate on a DCC layout. It will also operate on analog AC or DC. The manual says the analog "mode of operation is recognized automatically." CV 50 can be used to turn off unneeded protocols (except DCC which is apparently always active). See the 55029 manual, page 20.

Lastly, the manual for the Zimo decoders are on the Zimo site, and best to ask on the Zimo forum about fitting a MX699LS to this loco, but I'm pretty sure it has been done.

Agree, check with Zimo or the Zimo forum. The Zimo decoder manual indicates one of the large scale 28 pin decoders will plug into the MLGB mtc27 interface board but does not explain further. For instance, if a pin needs to be removed and which one. Note that the mtc27 configuration keeps the MLGB decoder from being plugged in 180 degrees out. That's why the white filler is in the one pin hole of the mtc27 interface board. The two 14 pin sockets are otherwise physically identical.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Thanks Phil. From all the recent reading, many people have advised to turn off MFX mode, and that has solved a number of issues. I've seen this on this forum and many others. So while it is SUPPOSED to decide it is seeing DCC and not go "rogue MFX" the experiences I have read underscore the wisdom of turning off this mode if not running on an MFX layout.

While I could probably answer the Zimo question here, the Zimo forum has many more resources and experience on fitting the MX series decoders to LGB locos, so that is why I suggestion Robin to go there and not give my what may be incomplete answers here.

Greg

 

[Airbuspilot]

Thanks Phil and Greg. I discovered the ZIMO decoders in one of the cupboards but there was no info with them. The ZIMO site shows the various decoders for large scale but when manuals selected it gives me a page not available on this server message, hence my compatibility question.

If I understand Phil I should be able to insert this decoder and run “ out of the box” but presumably incorrect orientation could be damaging so no rush to do that.

I still have no access to manuals on ZIMO site and will revert to Greg’s forum for further decoder questions, specifically orientation.

Robin

 

[Greg Elmassian]

http://www.zimo.at/web2010/documents/MX-large-scale_decoders_EN.pdf

No problem on their site...

The manuals are on this page:

ZIMO Betriebsanleitungen / user manuals

Those links should work.

Greg

 

[Airbuspilot]

Possibly my iPad, tried several times but always page not available, works on my MAC.
Will post on the Zimo Forum

 

[Greg Elmassian]

So it is your iPad, probably a browser issue. Maybe try a different browser, but you need to see these pages on a big screen.

Anyway the manual is a PDF, so once you have downloaded it, you can copy to your iPad if you want.

Greg

 

[Dan]

CV 50 on the Marklin is set to 10 for DC, DCC and MFX. Change CV 50 to 2 for DC and DCC only.
Most LGB engines when having a decoder installed bypasses the switch in the cab. The switch was used by LGB to turn off the motor and keep the lights on for DC only users. In DCC all functions are handled by the DCC interface and no switch is needed.

 

[phils2um]

At the bottom of the LGB page is a suggestion to add a power storage device, I think we have some of these (not sure if there is room). Looking at the notes for the decoder it says simply plug in but doesn't say where? This would be a sensible addition as we do have problems with the small 4 wheel locos.

I heard back from the Märklin Digital guys on this. There is a small SUSI jack on the non-component side (the side not shown in any pictures!) of the 55029 decoder that accepts the plug of the 55429 Power Storage Device. Here is what they said about adding it to older mfx sound decoders:

"This power pack is designed to plug into the current MFX decoders so I would assume that it would need to be soldered into an older decoder but we wouldn’t know where."

 

[Airbuspilot]

Thanks for that Phil, as we have several ZIMO decoders I will use them as first attempt. These decoders come with capacitors already installed so solves both issues.
Robin

 

[Airbuspilot]

Firstly thanks for your efforts for helping me with this but unfortunately the ZIMO decoder isn't going to work. The pins fit exactly as expected but the decoder is fractionally longer (about 5 mm) than the LGB equivalent and interferes with the power / motor plug on the lower adaptor plate. As a result it is impossible to fit in this loco. Looks like we will have to buy another decoder from LGB.
Robin

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Can you show a picture of the interference?

I wonder if there is not an "extender" that will raise the decoder. You cannot be the first person this has happened to.

Greg