DCC Function Decoder

electricity_bill

Registered
11 Feb 2010
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Hello
I have used DCC for some time now and fitted many loco decoders which operate on my Massoth Navigator system. However, I have just purchased a function decoder with no motor connections and would appreciate a little basic help. The Navigator has sections for Locos and Switch Decoders but I can find no mention of Function Decoders.
Do I use the Loco section and simply create Loco identity with no motor? I programme my loco decoders on my programming track and the loco gives a pulse of output when programming. How does this work with no motor?
Bit basic perhaps but some help would be appreciated.
 

idlemarvel

Neither idle nor a marvel
13 Jul 2015
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I don't have a Massoth Navigator but I have used Massoth function decoders before. You treat them like locos not accessories. If they are going to be fitted in a loco to provide extra lighting options or whatever you could give it the same address as the loco if you want, but if you do that be careful if you do any "programming on main". Beware of some of the CV settings, from memory the voltage output settings are not the same range as on motor decoders. I think the manual explains how to provide a "load" for programming track purposes, I'll have to look it up.
 

idlemarvel

Neither idle nor a marvel
13 Jul 2015
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You didn't say but I assume you have a Massoth function decoder. The manual for that (the 8FL) says:
IMPORTANT NOTE FOR PROGRAMMING
To program the decoder a minimum load of 100 ohms needs to [be] connected on A1 to DEC(+).


As previously mentioned, the light dimming values go from 0-100 not 0-32 so if you thought 32 would be full track voltage you'd only be getting a third of that.

You can set a "programming on main" address in CV107 and CV108 that is different from the main DCC address. This would let you program the function decoder after it had been installed even if you had used the same main address as the loco it was installed in.
 

PhilP

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5 Jun 2013
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I was going to say, make and model number, would help..
 

electricity_bill

Registered
11 Feb 2010
654
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I was going to say, make and model number, would help..
It is a Liasdcc 860011 decoder and I want it to operate some level crossing alternate flashing lights nothing to do with a loco.
 

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
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Tamworth, Staffs.
I think I would use a string of back to back diodes, to reduce the voltage presented to this device..

PhilP
 

electricity_bill

Registered
11 Feb 2010
654
2
Not according to the manual as per my link Bill?

I would advise caution....

Quote from the supplier "you should be ok with the voltage, the decoders can handle up to 20v, for O guage, you may need to just be careful with the load current, which is 100mA per function / output, so if you're close to that, you may need to think about using relays or other indirect switching."​

OK on the assumption that it is capable of running at 20V, how do I programme it please?
 

JimmyB

Semi-Retired; more time for trains.
Foolish question but did you ask the supplier.
 

Greg Elmassian

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8 Mar 2014
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So, since he now has the manual (which says don't go over 16v in RED), he's asking how to program?

So I normally go into programming (service) mode and enter CV's....


So Bill, is your problem programming because you cannot find a pre-configured file for this decoder?

Cannot you just program the CV's per the manual, individually?

You did indeed lead off with:
I have used DCC for some time now and fitted many loco decoders which operate on my Massoth Navigator system.

Which to me, indicates you understand the basics at least, just program the individual CV's... surely the most basic part of programming. (no insult intended, but you indicated you are experienced)

Greg
 

electricity_bill

Registered
11 Feb 2010
654
2
So, since he now has the manual (which says don't go over 16v in RED), he's asking how to program?

So I normally go into programming (service) mode and enter CV's....


So Bill, is your problem programming because you cannot find a pre-configured file for this decoder?

Cannot you just program the CV's per the manual, individually?

You did indeed lead off with:
I have used DCC for some time now and fitted many loco decoders which operate on my Massoth Navigator system.

Which to me, indicates you understand the basics at least, just program the individual CV's... surely the most basic part of programming. (no insult intended, but you indicated you are experienced)

Greg
Can I go back to my original question. I have read through the Lais manual and the section specifically relating to the 860011 is brief to say the least. Do I need to connect a load whilst programming and if so , where and what value? It was mentioned earlier that on Massoth Function decoders, you need to connect a load of at least 100 ohms across A1 to +ve. In terms of programming I think I need to configure Functions F1 and F2 to act as Ditch Lights but again, how to do that that is not too clear in the manual.
 

idlemarvel

Neither idle nor a marvel
13 Jul 2015
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You might be better asking on a HO/OO or N forum as these decoders are really designed for these scales.

If it was me I would try with a bulb across white and blue, connect red and black to programming track output and see if you can read CV1. If you can read a value then try writing one.

Enough people have pointed out the manual says many times only use with track voltage less than 16v.
 

Greg Elmassian

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I agree the manual is sparse, but all your 860011 decoder does is a 4 function decoder with no motor control.

860011-LaisDcc-1536x1536.jpg


There is no "always connected" output like a motor, but I would hook up a LED with appropriate resistor to one of the 4 "outputs" and put this in "service mode" since the manual references READING CVs, thus it must be programmable in service mode.

Besides the manual, there is a document on their site with all the possible cv's.

Can you read any CV back from the decoder at all? That would be a logical first place to start.


Greg
 

ntpntpntp

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24 Oct 2009
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UK
Doesn't sound like the correct type of function decoder if it uses loco addresses.

Not something I've played with, but there are stationary accessory decoders designed for driving signals or lighting etc. probably with selectable effects such as alternate flashing.
 

Greg Elmassian

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8 Mar 2014
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There are basically mobile decoders and accessory decoders.

The mobile decoders respond to loco addresses. This includes function only decoders, often used to enhance lighting on locos and rolling stock.

Accessory decoders respond to accessory addresses.... these are usually things like switch machines, since they have attributes like "thrown or normal"... indicating route

They may indeed be decoders for lights that respond to the accessory commands, I have never used any, but clearly they could exist.

Greg
 
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The Shed

Registered
They appear to be reverse engineered, and share similar characteristics from the host decoder manufacturer.

To enable read back of CV’s on the programming track, a 50 to 100 ohm resistor, MUST be connected between the blue wire and any one of the light function wires.

As for it's voltage limit, whilst the Massoth 1210Z has an adjustable voltage output up to 22V (which is already beyond the 20V) , which COULD be used, therein lies a problem, to be safe and within the decoders operating voltage limit of 16V (I'd take the recommendation of 20V with a large pinch of salt!), a large quantity of 1N4xxx Diodes will be required, made up into string pairs..........is it really worth it?
 
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Greg Elmassian

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So, Shed, do you believe these are a "clone" of another manufacturer? Would like to know to compare that manual to the manual for this 860011, just to see the "original" specs.

To the OP, that's 2 people recommending you hook an led to a function "output" for programming.

And I heartily agree with Shed's last sentence....

Greg