DCC/DC Switching between

[Peter.Horne]

I have a 10 year old USA Trains J1e Hudson, with Phoenix sound on board. I am new to DCC & wish to convert it to DCC there by using my LGB 55005 + controller 55015 with an eMOTION XXL11Loco Decoder.
This is not too much of an issue, but I also would like to be able to run the loco on a club track that is DC 0-24V only.
My question is to how I can make this change over between the 2 methods in a simple way.
Thanks

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Only if you are a magician!

Seriously, there's a whole bunch of separate circuit boards, and a lot of wires. Worse is the separate systems for sound, motor and smoke chuff.

I assume you want to keep the puffing smoke working and the sound system.

there is no such thing as "simple" for this loco. I'm not aware of the availability of a schematic. I'd advise a professional, or learn, really. (Though not a good loco to learn on).

Virtually all DCC decoders can be set to automatically run on DC, that is the easy part.

If it was mine: (assuming all of the loco is stock)

1. dump the Phoenix and get a combination motor/function/sound decoder.
2. I would direct drive the smoke unit for better performance, that smoke unit is wimpy
3. I would not use Massoth unless you have a friend to help you tune the motor (it is a nasty pittman), sound and smoke.

I have one with a Zimo, and direct drive smoke, it's great, but this is a quality, expensive loco, it needs quality electronics in a quality installation.

Greg

 

[PhilP]

Wot Greg says..
They are a nightmare to work on. - Even supporting the body, so as not to break the fine wiring, can be awkward.

Not for the faint-hearted, and I would suggest, not a DCC conversion for the inexperienced.

PhilP

 

[Peter.Horne]

Only if you are a magician!

Seriously, there's a whole bunch of separate circuit boards, and a lot of wires. Worse is the separate systems for sound, motor and smoke chuff.

I assume you want to keep the puffing smoke working and the sound system.

there is no such thing as "simple" for this loco. I'm not aware of the availability of a schematic. I'd advise a professional, or learn, really. (Though not a good loco to learn on).

Virtually all DCC decoders can be set to automatically run on DC, that is the easy part.

If it was mine: (assuming all of the loco is stock)

1. dump the Phoenix and get a combination motor/function/sound decoder.
2. I would direct drive the smoke unit for better performance, that smoke unit is wimpy
3. I would not use Massoth unless you have a friend to help you tune the motor (it is a nasty pittman), sound and smoke.

I have one with a Zimo, and direct drive smoke, it's great, but this is a quality, expensive loco, it needs quality electronics in a quality installation.

Greg

Thanks for your comments Greg.

It seams that I need to do a lot of reading before I start.

You are correct about the availability of a schematic, as I emailed USA Trains & they replied that they don't have 1

I will let you know how I get on.

Regards

Peter

 

[Greg Elmassian]

I purchased my Hudson with the conversion already done from a friend (he had about 4 of them). I do know the person who did the conversion, Dan Pierce, who posts on this forum.

If you decide to do it yourself, he and I would give as many tips as possible, but you should be pretty darn familiar in "sussing out" wiring, as the USAT locos always have crazy stuff.

Trying to use the Phoenix, I would recommend against. This is because of the limited space inside, and the fact that the Phoenix is old technology and will not accurately reflect the load on the loco as it runs (cannot sense the physical load on the motor).

Buying a quality DCC decoder, which will also automatically switch to DC mode makes more sense, since they are all around $200 now, actually less than the Phoenix, and they run sound, motor, lights, etc all in one package. (You can sell your Phoenix for a pretty penny now too, since they are having production problems).

Doing this will also make the installation easier, as you will isolate the chuff, motor and lights, and remove the other electronics. Trying to work within the existing electronics is a tougher job given room and no schematic.

These are my best suggestions,

Greg

 

[Peter.Horne]

I purchased my Hudson with the conversion already done from a friend (he had about 4 of them). I do know the person who did the conversion, Dan Pierce, who posts on this forum.

If you decide to do it yourself, he and I would give as many tips as possible, but you should be pretty darn familiar in "sussing out" wiring, as the USAT locos always have crazy stuff.

Trying to use the Phoenix, I would recommend against. This is because of the limited space inside, and the fact that the Phoenix is old technology and will not accurately reflect the load on the loco as it runs (cannot sense the physical load on the motor).

Buying a quality DCC decoder, which will also automatically switch to DC mode makes more sense, since they are all around $200 now, actually less than the Phoenix, and they run sound, motor, lights, etc all in one package. (You can sell your Phoenix for a pretty penny now too, since they are having production problems).

Doing this will also make the installation easier, as you will isolate the chuff, motor and lights, and remove the other electronics. Trying to work within the existing electronics is a tougher job given room and no schematic.

These are my best suggestions,

Greg

Hi Greg.

Thanks for your thoughts & offer of assistance.

I am going on holiday in a few days, so when I return I will open up the loco and firstly try to produce a simple wiring diagram. When I have done this I will email a copy to you for any comment.

A couple of years ago I had to replace the smoke unit, so at that time I extended all the wires from the main body to the boiler section. This was to make separation easier.

I will let you know how I get on.

My email address is peter,horne10@icloud.com

 

[Paul M]

Hi Greg.

Thanks for your thoughts & offer of assistance.

I am going on holiday in a few days, so when I return I will open up the loco and firstly try to produce a simple wiring diagram. When I have done this I will email a copy to you for any comment.

A couple of years ago I had to replace the smoke unit, so at that time I extended all the wires from the main body to the boiler section. This was to make separation easier.

I will let you know how I get on.

My email address is peter,horne10@icloud.com

I would think twice about putting your email address, or indeed another personal details on the open page. Whereas I would probably trust the members of the forum, we do have visitors, or less desirable folks lurking around

 

[JimmyB]

I would think twice about putting your email address, or indeed another personal details on the open page. Whereas I would probably trust the members of the forum, we do have visitors, or less desirable folks lurking around

Paul, though I totally agree, Greg normally counters this with the fact he has is email on his website though I am still unsure how that makes it right

 

[Greg Elmassian]

I've published my email name for many years.... I get about the same spam as other people.

Believe me, this small forum is the least of your worries about data privacy. Your bank, mortgage owner, your credit cards, your utilities companies, they are the ones selling your data for profit. They are also the people that have the advanced information about you, account numbers, etc.

Greg

 

[dunnyrail]

Paul, though I totally agree, Greg normally counters this with the fact he has is email on his website though I am still unsure how that makes it right

Indeed, there is little need to publish private emails in this or any other forum. There is a perfectly good email with this forum that can be used and if private mails are required passed along via that route.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Paul, though I totally agree, Greg normally counters this with the fact he has is email on his website though I am still unsure how that makes it right

Does not make it right.

Just does not make it wrong... difference... I will have my email until I die, but forums, and software comes and goes. Also, if I was to exercise paranoia, using private messages that are all stored in a forum is more dangerous than personal email. The quality of forum software and it's resistance to hacking is well below the basic email systems used by the world, and business.

So do whatever you want, but this forum will never be the cause of you being hacked, except if you use common passwords here and on important personal things... then you have indeed made a misstep.

Greg

 

[Dan]

I have have worked on several USA Hudsons and these are not straight forward in any way. The only decoder I installed in the Hudson was the Zimo as it has 6 amp total output but can take a 10 amp surge. ANd you can control freatures like Greg mentioned as well as 4 servos (remote uncoupling can be done via a servo) and control smoke units with 3 settings for heater and 3 settings for the fan!!

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Dan, I have "your" Hudson I believe... Bought from Nick S., Greg

 

[Peter.Horne]

I have have worked on several USA Hudsons and these are not straight forward in any way. The only decoder I installed in the Hudson was the Zimo as it has 6 amp total output but can take a 10 amp surge. ANd you can control freatures like Greg mentioned as well as 4 servos (remote uncoupling can be done via a servo) and control smoke units with 3 settings for heater and 3 settings for the fan!!

Hi Dan
Do you have a wiring diagram for the Hudson? If so would please share it with me, or any sketches that you may of made.
Thanks

 

[Peter.Horne]

I purchased my Hudson with the conversion already done from a friend (he had about 4 of them). I do know the person who did the conversion, Dan Pierce, who posts on this forum.

If you decide to do it yourself, he and I would give as many tips as possible, but you should be pretty darn familiar in "sussing out" wiring, as the USAT locos always have crazy stuff.

Trying to use the Phoenix, I would recommend against. This is because of the limited space inside, and the fact that the Phoenix is old technology and will not accurately reflect the load on the loco as it runs (cannot sense the physical load on the motor).

Buying a quality DCC decoder, which will also automatically switch to DC mode makes more sense, since they are all around $200 now, actually less than the Phoenix, and they run sound, motor, lights, etc all in one package. (You can sell your Phoenix for a pretty penny now too, since they are having production problems).

Doing this will also make the installation easier, as you will isolate the chuff, motor and lights, and remove the other electronics. Trying to work within the existing electronics is a tougher job given room and no schematic.

These are my best suggestions,

Greg

Hi Greg
Just a thought do you or possibly Dan Pierce would have a wiring diagram for the USA Trains Hudson?
Thanks
Peter

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Peter, please email me, I have a 1 pager that shows the phoenix connevtions and some board id numbers. It's nothing great but it's what I have.

Greg

 

[Peter.Horne]

Peter, please email me, I have a 1 pager that shows the phoenix connevtions and some board id numbers. It's nothing great but it's what I have.

Greg

Hi Greg
Sorry I can’t access your email address.
Peter

 

[Greg Elmassian]

did you read my signature? It's right there

 

[PhilP]

did you read my signature? It's right there

Greg,
Look's like your 'sig' is not being displayed, at the moment?

PhilP

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Something wrong at your ends... greg@elmassian.com