cannot stop autochuff Massoth eMotion S

[Greg Elmassian]

So what is weird is that when the NCE comes up in service mode, if you use thier "standard" sequence... it reads manufacturer, version, then goes into addressing... the version is given as 41...

But I used direct mode to read CV 7 and got 2... this is a brand new decoder, but I noticed the NCE system trying paged mode... the nce can use direct, paged or register modes, and from it's initial attempt to read the decoder, will decide what to do in service mode...

Also, please note that the eMNotion S supports register mode programming too? Pretty Fred Flintstone...

The weird thing is the strange values as I reported in my web page, the contents of 190 and 191 don't make sense, but change them and the manual chuff stops working... right now the autochuff works, and responds to "Tuning" duration, etc.... but the reed contact inputs make chuffs TOO.... very strange.

I think I will read the CVs with my Zimo... it will also indicate the service mode it "thinks" is right.

Greg

 

[muns]

@Greg, current firmware version is 4.11, CV7=41

The oldest firmware that I am aware of (and have a copy of) is v2.63 and that would be CV7=26

CV7=2, like you say, makes no sense!


The method of RPM control has changed over the years, prior to firmware 3.5 the CVs are as follows:


From firmware 3.5 onwards....

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Thanks Mark!

I think I'm somehow reading bad settings in that I am using direct CV writing... and will look at the NCE system when it first starts, it will indicate the mode it used.

Perhaps that would explain why when I program I don't get the right results. Also, my Zimo may be more "friendly".

Since this is a new decoder, hard to believe it is anything other than 4.1.

The customer did indeed get the wrong manual with the decoder, and the CV sheet provided shows very weird settings as listed on my web site.

Once I can determine if I am using the wrong programming mode, I may have to call the distributor and ask him where the heck he got the values he programmed to.

Also, for some reason he is using Clock 2 instead of Clock 1... not a big deal just unusual.

The manual I am using matches the second one you printed.

Regards, Greg

 

[muns]

Greg, are you saying that the chuff sensor is soldered to the back of the S decoder (Clock 2 is only exposed as a solder pad) ?

I would use Clock 1.

FYI as of Sep 20, firmware 4.2 is the latest not 4.11 (oops)

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Yep, and yes me too.

I asked him why, but apparently it's the way his dealer/distributor set it up, and since he has wires soldered there, I'm not touching it.

Also, note well, touching the clock 2 and gnd wires produces chuffs, in accordance with CV195... just cannot stop autochuff... crazy..

Greg

 

[Greg Elmassian]

OK, so I know a bit more.

Reading CV7 for the software version is only accessable by register mode.

Paged mode and direct mode do not give the right value... you get 55 or 155... in register mode you get 41, which is what is expected.

Also trying to use service mode to write cv's like 196 does not work with either my NCE system or Zimo system... very disappointing...

So I use programming on the main... after a reset the decoder does autochuff and also the trigger gives extra chuffs, so that is still the original problem.

Setting 196 to 0 kills all chuffs, auto and triggered.

Also the dealer set cv's 190 and 191 to sounds 1 and 2 respectively... setting them to anything else makes no change in the triggered or autochuff..

So this pretty much makes no sense at all...

Greg

 

[idlemarvel]

Just out of interest have you tried setting cv 197 (simulated chuffs at max speed) to 0? Not sure what it will do but as you've tried everything else nothing to lose.

It is beginning to look like the decoder is not working as designed or perhaps not working as documented.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Yep, did try that, but not POM...will try again tonight as I have established that programming any CV not in register mode does not work... very unimpressed with compatibility...

Greg

 

[Roger Bush]

To bring this thread up-to-date, it is time to reveal that I am the friend Greg referred to at the beginning of this thread. Despite a monumental effort on Greg’s part, reprogramming my Massoth eMotion S Sound Decoder to eliminate the "automatic" chuff and allow for a reed switch/magnet arrangement did not happen. Greg is now of the opinion that the decoder has defective firmware and/or software. The dealer does not respond to my emails asking for resolution of this issue. So it looks like I have a $230 +/- decoder likely destined to go to a landfill.

My sincere thanks to Greg for the time he devoted to this effort. I’m sure he had other more rewarding things to do.

Roger Bush

 

[PhilP]

So it looks like I have a $230 +/- decoder likely destined to go to a landfill.

You could send it directly to Massoth?

 

[Roger Bush]

Over on Large Scale Central a member informed me that there is a 12 month warranty period for the decoder. He supplied me with a warranth service form so I will be sending the decoder to Germany. So - a new fork in the road!
Roger Bush

 

[Roger Bush]

The following diary of events will bring this topic to a close:

12/03/18 Decoder sent to Massoth with completed warranty form. Shipping cost $14

01/08/19 email from Massoth says service order RMA recorded

02/19/19 email from Massoth: i did an update of the firmware and the sound. The best is to use an Hall sensor kit to control the chuffs and connected to clock 1. Clock 2 input is only used with the Ballenberg

02/19/19 I replied: Thank you for the firmware and sound updates. I do not want to use the Hall sensor kit. It is much too difficult to install and limits use of the decoder to only one locomotive. I will be using the decoder in a trailing battery car which can be used with any locomotive. I wish to disable chuff from track power and enable chuff from GND and Clock 2 solder pads using a reed sensor switch as shown in Illustration #9 on page 15 of the eMOTION S Decoder Installation Manual. Would you do that, please?

03/11/19 email from Massoth: i would like to inform you that your serviceorder is finished. Please let us know how you would like to pay the invoice. Via bank transfer or by paypal?

03/11/19 I replied: I was of the understanding that I had a 12-month warranty on this product. It was purchased July 16, 2018. Why is there a charge?

03/11/19 Reply from Massoth: We check it and then i write you again

03/21/19 email to Massoth: Have you sent the decoder back to me yet?

03/22/19 email from Massoth: sorry! We send today the dekoder to you

04/08/19 decoder received from Massoth. Paperwork included states: Dekoder has been reprogrammed……20 min. Today I installed the reprogrammed decoder in the tender and guess what? It performs exactly as it did last July!

So now what? I don’t know. I have a decoder that in total cost $259.90 including all the numerous shipping charges. And as far as I’m concerned it is worthless.

What did I learn from this experience? (1) The manual for the decoder is misleading and perhaps false. Apparently it cannot be programmed as I wished. (2) Support from the US Massoth dealer and from the Massoth company in Germany is extraordinarily poor.

Well, that’s all folks.

Roger Bush