cannot stop autochuff Massoth eMotion S

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Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

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Have a friend that is having all kinds of issues, basically he wants to use a chuff trigger and trigger chuffs with a reed switch.

I've tried all the CV's that make sense and I cannot turn off the autochuff... when I use the chuff trigger leads, it indeed gives me chuffs that I "asked for", but the autochuff just keeps going with speed.

everything else works as expected.

I have my investigation on my site, for the details of the CV's I have tried... very weird... at this point all suggestions will be considered that are not illegal or cause species to go extinct.

Massoth

Thanks, Greg
 
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PhilP

PhilP

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Starting with the last sentence:
The 0 - 12 are the sounds. - There is a sound datasheet for each soundfile you grab from Massoth. The numbers on that sheet identify which sound will be played by the trigger inputs.

Now,
Which version of firmware is the 'S' running? CV 7 value.
Which soundfile have you got loaded?

If using v4 firmware, CV 196 = 0 for a hall sensor.
 
Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

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Using reed switch as stated...

I'll look at 196, since the manual says they have to do with chuff duration and spaces between chuff.... I did not set it to zero, maybe that's the key...

Will try tomorrow, thank you!

Greg
 
Slawman

Slawman

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For current version of firmware, CV 196 will enable the reed trigger - a value of "0" configures this.

If it is currently returning a value of "255" this is set for simulation based on speed steps.

CV 195, 197 and 198 are also relevant for tuning timing:

• CV 195 defines the number of magnet poles required to play one steam chuff: 1 = one chuff per magnet 2 = one chuff per two magnets 4 = one chuff per four magnets
• CV 197 (steam locomotives only) defines the duration of a chuff at maximum speed. Range: 1 (fast) ... 20 (slow)
• CV 198 (steam locomotives only) defines the pause time between steam chuffs (in relation to the duration of the chuffs).

** Reproduced extract from Massoth manual


This all assumes that the setup is standard. If your friend has loaded custom sounds all sorts of interesting outcomes are possible....
 
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Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

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Guys, thanks for the help.

Slawman, I have digested the manual... CV197 not in the manual.

Also please note I have stated it is an eMotion S, in case there are differences between the other models

Please check the link I provided in my post to see what I tried: Massoth

Also you missed CV 149.... supposedly it should have bit 4 set to zero...

nowhere does it say 196 to be set to zero but sort of makes sense, will definitely try...

Greg
 
Slawman

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Have you got the config. manual? There are two separate manuals for this chipset.

CV149 is not relevant for your friends config in terms of activating the reed trigger for Chuffs.
 
Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

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OK, this manual indicates CV 149, page 59: http://www.allaboutlgb.com/pdfs/Massoth eMOTION Configuration Manual S, LS, XLS, XLS-M1, XLS-Onboard.pdf (configuration manual)

And this manual indicates CV 149, page 45: http://www.allaboutlgb.com/pdfs/Massoth eMOTION S Decoder User's Manual V2013-06.pdf
(user manual)

Both of them indicate the state of the reed switch, if it is directional or not..... so is this reed switch mentioned in both manuals some other reed switch, that is not using Clock 1 or Clock 2?

In any case, I set it correctly, unless you can point it otherwise... also the Massoth dealer set it that way....

Greg
 
Slawman

Slawman

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I have set a few of my locos up using the Massoth sound decoder and an axle trigger running a hall sensor (I am guessing similar to your friends intention?).

I connect the sensor to clock 1 input and use the CVs mentioned in my original post to activate and configure.

CV 149 is not relevant to this process unless you want to activate/de-activate load based chuff and either way it works.

Just in case I have misunderstood your objective, exactly which bit setting of CV 149 do you believe is relevant?
 
Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

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Would you please look at the references I made, my post #5 indicates the bit setting of CV149.... It's in both manuals, I even referenced the page in EACH manual, and provided the links..

I can try clock 1, he already soldered wires to the clock 2 pad (don't know why he did not use the plug/socket)

Also, without the sound file information, I don't know what sound 1 being tied to clock 1 is meant to do, or if it would break something, right now I don't trust this software, never seen any decoder that would do both speed sensing chuff and triggered chuff at the same time, poor design to allow this to happen...

Greg
 
Slawman

Slawman

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This is what has been confusing. You have two separate functions mixed up.

CV149 bit 4 configuration relates to the triggering of a (generally single) sound via a reed ie. horn warning, bell, voice announcement etc. the direction sensitive setting means the sound will only trigger if the loco is travelling forward or backward. This is not used for the repetitive reproduction of chuff sounds (although it may work in theory, in practice the single sound trigger does not work fast enough to reproduce a string of chuffs).

The other CVs we have been referencing relate to the chuff functionality.

What does CV 196 read?

Your friend is using a reed / axle setup yes?
 
Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

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That's helpful in that it is not intended to be the chuff.... (that is missing from the manual of course), but I figured that setting it to 0 could not hurt... so I will ignore that bit.

The answer to your question about CV 196 is STILL on my link to my web site.... apparently you still have not gone to that page I worked hard on to be clear and organized.

The answer to your question about the reed switch is here on this thread and also on the web site link.

For your convenience I will post the link again CLICK HERE

Greg
 
PhilP

PhilP

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Greg,
Bottom-right of page 30 in the manual you first linked in post #7
8. RPM control, control in- and outputs
(this for CV 196=0 for steam external trigger)

Link to most recent 'S' decoder manuals on Massoth Wiki:

Massoth WIKI | 8202000 S Sounddecoder

PhilP
 
Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

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Ah HAH! The manual supplied to my friend does NOT have this information, it only specifies a range of values for 196..... I was using the manual he was supplied when I was programming... there is no date on it, either the beginning or end of the document... and it does not reference v4.0....

Since he bought this recently, it would makes sense this is the latest version...

I won't mention the dealer that did this, but this decoder has been back to him several times to correct this issue.... pretty bad when a distributor does not use the correct manual... still kind of cold out, will check it out in a couple of hours....

The distributor also supplied a sheet of what he set the CV's to, and 196 came set to 255....

Greg
 
Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

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CV7 reads as 2.... can you shed any light on version info?

setting 196 to 0 does not alter the behavior, drat

decoder version reads as 41, so that must be 4.1 version

weird, reset with CV7 = 55 results in no short address, CV1 reads as zero... very bizarre..


Greg
 
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Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

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OK, am going to try with JMRI, and set the CV's to a somewhat normal setting... the settings of 190 and 191 are bothering me... not being 0 to 12... but perhaps a CV7=55 reset wiped out the settings he did... will double check his (the distributor) settings sheet.

Any other suggestions?

Greg
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
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If an external pulse generator, then CV 190 must be '0'.
Correct CLOCK input (not a reed input) being used?

If there is any doubt about the firmware, and if it has been updated, I would assume it was (or had been) 2.nn, and then sequentially load 3.nn, 4.0, and 4.whatever-we-are-up-to-this-week. Then reload the sound-file for the loco.

Test on default address '3' (basic movement, lights, and default sounds) and then start altering other CV's..

Oh, one other thing.. Has the decoder got any markings, possibly including 'OK', in red pen on it anywhere? - If so, it has been back to Massoth, as faulty, been repaired and come back out to a supplier.. -But I didn't tell you that. ;):lipssealed:
 
Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

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Woah!

Please check your manual for CV 190.... it is the sound allocation for reed contact 1... and it must be a sound from 1-12, or if 0 no sound is allocated.

If you have a manual that tells you differently, it is not the one at the massoth wiki...

Massoth WIKI | 8202000 S Sound Decoder

(yes, all the other stuff works... the problem is only that the autochuff cannot be stopped)

By the way, this is a sound only module, so no lights, motor...

The values that I read do not make sense...


Muns: you asked several times about CV7, which is 2, is this old?

Something is weird... my NCE system reports version 41, but when I read CV7 I get 2....
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
23,179
405
Tamworth, Staffs.
Woah!

Please check your manual for CV 190.... it is the sound allocation for reed contact 1... and it must be a sound from 1-12, or if 0 no sound is allocated.

If you have a manual that tells you differently, it is not the one at the massoth wiki...
My bad Greg..

A 'typo' on my part.. CV 190 is indeed reed 1. :(:rolleyes::shake:

CV 196 = 0 is

what I meant.


Something is weird... my NCE system reports version 41, but when I read CV7 I get 2....
I wonder if your NCE has a 4.1 XML file for the template?
If I got CV 7= 2 then I would assume v2.35 - I do not think a 4.n sound-file would work with that firmware?