Brill 21e trucks for LGB/OcCre/Bachmann trams

[Philippe DUSSART]

Dear all,

To be honest, I do not like too much Occre wooden trucks and motor systems. Bachmann same story. There are better solutions.

A first attempt with the Barcelona tram is shown here, in two versions.
One motor set came from the UK (bad result with flimsy chinese motors),
The other one from le Train Magique in France, with Mashima motors and brass gears.
See Barcelona

Something more interesting with a Cairo tram set.
Heavily modified and improved Bachmann trams, with laser cut PET sheets,
Laser cut metal frames, own design for motor and gears.
These models were exhibited in 2020 at the Bois-du Luc museum (Belgium) during three months, as part of displays of Belgium exports to Egypt between 1850 and 1950.
See Cairo

Improved Occre model, with many personal add-ons, including correct paint, transfers, bow collector, etc
Last version: laser cut frames and totally new "universal" motor and gear system. Powerful with Swiss 8 W motors ans 1:25 gear ratio. Compact and can be used under floor and for bogies as well.
This model is presently exhibited at Trainworld (Brussels train museum) as part of an Orient Express exhibition until april 2022.
See Istanbul









Regards, Philippe

 

[john]

What pitch of gears have you used Philippe? It looks a very nicely made and useful drive.
Regards
John

 

[PhilP]

Several things of beauty, to behold.

 

[Madman]

Over here there used to be a company, Northwest Short Drive that made axle hung motors for all "O" and "HO" scales. Not sure if they are still around. In all of my model railroading years, I never seriously delved into one of their drives.

 

[Philippe DUSSART]

John,

I am using M0.3 brass spur gears in this case.
- 2mm bore and 10 teeth out of the Swiss Maxon A-Max (5 W) or RE-Max motor (8 W)
- 2mm intermediate axle with 50 and 10 teeth gears
- 1/8 inch bore with 50 teeth for the Tenmille wheel axles (I replace the original Tenmille axle by a straight axle)

Here is a link of my gears supplier (its is originally a German company that moved to Poland) : kkpmo - KK Produktcja Mikroantriebe Zahnrad, Schnecken, Mikro Getriebe und Car System Hersteller
You can choose "a la carte" material, gear module, number of teeth, bore and width of the spur gear !!!!!!
M0.2, M0.25, M0.3, M0.35, M0.4, M0.5, DP48 (in stock)
M0.1, M0.15, M0.16, M0.6, M0.7, M0.8, M1, DP72, DP64 (special order)

Notes:
- 2mm and 1/8 axles are fitted with bushes form Nairnshire Modelling supplies
- M2 brass spacers (electronics supplies) available mm by mm
- 3D printed support for LGB power pick-ups (contact through the inner side of Tenmille wheel flanges)
- a piece of brass (not shown below) is used to fix the lot to the tram floor.







Regards, Philippe

 

[Philippe DUSSART]

Dear all,

Another Brill 21E example with "KW trams" white metal truck frames. Controllers also from "KW trams".
All the rest is own design, including axle boxes, trolley, lantern in cast brass, laser cut wood and metal.
This tram was part of the "Tramway électrique Ostende - Littoral"
It was a private meter gauge line running between Ostend and Westende (Belgium) between 1897 and 1905. The colonel North was the owner of this company.
It was then taken over by the vicinal SNCV in 1906.
The model shown had originally straight teck wooden sides, later replaced by curved metal sheets. Most cars ran until the fifties, until the demise of urban lines in Ostend.

See North tram

Regards, Philippe

 

[Southwestforests]

That makes a handsome little model.

 

[Software Tools]

Over here there used to be a company, Northwest Short Drive that made axle hung motors for all "O" and "HO" scales.

They also made Magic Carpet drives for 45mm gauge track for some years. I have them on my GHB Brill Convertible cars.
.

 

[Rhinochugger]

Dear all,

Another Brill 21E example with KW trams white metal truck frames. Controlles also from KW trams.
All the rest is own design, including axle boxes, trolley, lantern in cast brass, laser cut wood and metal.
This tram was part of the "Tramway électrique Ostende - Littoral"
It was a private meter gauge line running between Ostend and Westende (Belgium) between 1897 and 1905. The colonel North was the owner of this company.
It was then taken over by the vicinal SNCV in 1906.
The model shown had originally straight teck wooden sides, later replaced by curved metal sheets. Most cars ran until the fifties, until the demise of urban lines in Ostend.

See North tram

Regards, Philippe

Nice to see that Hercule Poirot is on the case

 

[Philippe DUSSART]

They also made Magic Carpet drives for 45mm gauge track for some years. I have them on my GHB Brill Convertible cars.
.
View attachment 292913

View attachment 292914

Software. Tool,


These are good looking bogie castings. Are they still available ? From which supplier ?

Regards, Philippe

 

[DafyddElvy]

They also made Magic Carpet drives for 45mm gauge track for some years. I have them on my GHB Brill Convertible cars.
.
View attachment 292913

View attachment 292914

That's a beautiful piece of engineering, who did you say supplys them?

David

 

[Software Tools]

Are they still available ?

Unfortunately no. The assembled bogies were done by GHB a couple of decades ago now, and its been a log time since NSWL was interested in supplying 45mm Magic Carpet drives

 

[PhilP]

I had heard of the Magic Carpet drives, but never seen one..

Was there a real-world prototype, for a bogie like that?

PhilP

 

[DafyddElvy]

Dear all,

To be honest, I do not like too much Occre wooden trucks and motor systems. Bachmann same story. There are better solutions.

A first attempt with the Barcelona tram is shown here, in two versions.
One motor set came from the UK (bad result with flimsy chinese motors),
The other one from le Train Magique in France, with Mashima motors and brass gears.
See Barcelona

Something more interesting with a Cairo tram set.
Heavily modified and improved Bachmann trams, with laser cut PET sheets,
Laser cut metal frames, own design for motor and gears.
These models were exhibited in 2020 at the Bois-du Luc museum (Belgium) during three months, as part of displays of Belgium exports to Egypt between 1850 and 1950.
See Cairo

Improved Occre model, with many personal add-ons, including correct paint, transfers, bow collector, etc
Last version: laser cut frames and totally new "universal" motor and gear system. Powerful with Swiss 8 W motors ans 1:25 gear ratio. Compact and can be used under floor and for bogies as well.
This model is presently exhibited at Trainworld (Brussels train museum) as part of an Orient Express exhibition until april 2022.
See Istanbul

View attachment 292898

View attachment 292895

View attachment 292896

View attachment 292897

Regards, Philippe

Who makes the laser cut parts for the traction motor, this looks like the answer to my search for a good quality small traction motor.

Very nice models.

David

 

[DafyddElvy]

I had heard of the Magic Carpet drives, but never seen one..

Was there a real-world prototype, for a bogie like that?

PhilP

The truck looks to be a 22E maximum traction truck, very nice, shame its not still available.

David

 

[john]

John,

I am using M0.3 brass spur gears in this case.
- 2mm bore and 10 teeth out of the Swiss Maxon A-Max (5 W) or RE-Max motor (8 W)
- 2mm intermediate axle with 50 and 10 teeth gears
- 1/8 inch bore with 50 teeth for the Tenmille wheel axles (I replace the original Tenmille axle by a straight axle)

Here is a link of my gears supplier (its is originally a German company that moved to Poland) : kkpmo - KK Produktcja Mikroantriebe Zahnrad, Schnecken, Mikro Getriebe und Car System Hersteller
You can choose "a la carte" material, gear module, number of teeth, bore and width of the spur gear !!!!!!
M0.2, M0.25, M0.3, M0.35, M0.4, M0.5, DP48 (in stock)
M0.1, M0.15, M0.16, M0.6, M0.7, M0.8, M1, DP72, DP64 (special order)

Notes:
- 2mm and 1/8 axles are fitted with bushes form Nairnshire Modelling supplies
- M2 brass spacers (electronics supplies) available mm by mm
- 3D printed support for LGB power pick-ups (contact through the inner side of Tenmille wheel flanges)
- a piece of brass (not shown below) is used to fix the lot to the tram floor.

View attachment 292900
View attachment 292901

View attachment 292902


Regards, Philippe

Thanks Philippe. Beautiful work on the trucks. I used 0.5mod on an experimental 0 gauge truck for a New York Subway car. Had to be quite small in this scale to get everything under the floor.
John

 

[Software Tools]

Was there a real-world prototype, for a bogie like that?

Yes, its called a "Maximum Traction" truck and is designed to put as much car weight as possible over the powered axle. IIRC the specific truck in my photo is a Brill 22E design.

Maximum Traction trucks fell out of favour as traction technology evolved and equal-wheel powered trucks (with two motors) became viable for new designs. Nonetheless older cars continued to run on Maximum Traction trucks until they were scrapped.... in Sydney the last Maximum Traction equipped cars lasted until after the end of WW2.

Here is a picture of a Maximum Traction truck in Lisbon.

 

[PhilP]

Thanks Guys..
Not being particularly 'Tramy' not something I have come across before.

As well as the Meccano, there is (somewhere!) in Dad's workshop, a large box of assorted motors, gears, what-have-you, from 60 years of taking 'stuff' apart...

Who knows what I might find?

 

[Timmo]

Don't you just hate it when a subject comes up that you hitherto have had no interest in nor any knowledge and then when you start reading it you have to find out more. What is a Brill 22E and a Brill 21E and what is Maximum Traction? and then Google searches to find out more and suddenly you are hooked!!

Then you stumble on Roger Farnworth's web pages about rural railways and tramways in France, in particular the Menton to Sospel tramway see The Menton to Sospel Tramway Revisited Again! (Chemins de Fer de Provence 61) and look at that viaduct and that bogie tram and you are hooked. Could I get a curved viaduct like the Viaduc du Caramel in the garden?

And finally a question, does anyone know of any drawings for the Menton - Sospel bogie tramcars?

Back to dreaming!!!

Tim

 

[dunnyrail]

Don't you just hate it when a subject comes up that you hitherto have had no interest in nor any knowledge and then when you start reading it you have to find out more. What is a Brill 22E and a Brill 21E and what is Maximum Traction? and then Google searches to find out more and suddenly you are hooked!!

Then you stumble on Roger Farnworth's web pages about rural railways and tramways in France, in particular the Menton to Sospel tramway see The Menton to Sospel Tramway Revisited Again! (Chemins de Fer de Provence 61) and look at that viaduct and that bogie tram and you are hooked. Could I get a curved viaduct like the Viaduc du Caramel in the garden?

And finally a question, does anyone know of any drawings for the Menton - Sospel bogie tramcars?

Back to dreaming!!!

Tim

Some time back in the forum was a thread about someone in I think Switzerland with G viaducts much like those in the picture, laboriously made using expanded polystyrene sheet to create moulds for concrete.