Bold question: some pictures wanted.

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justme igor

justme igor

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Just like the title says, bold question.
Most of you know (i think), know that i am building my own track, as precise as possible as close as i can to the real life thing.
Dispite all the written info and explanations giving, i can not make a clear image in my head on how to build that.
The first two turnouts where a slight failure, but with every build there where some major improvements.
Number 5 must could be a success?
I saw some pictures scattered over the forum today, that give some help/food for my thoughts.
I have some trouble to find the right pictures taking from above from turnouts, crossings, slip double slip and what ever comes in mind.
Some pictures that are covering the whole turnout, crossing, slip and the rest, taking directly above.
Some close ups on the frogs (including some track) and points, taking directly above, could be very helpful for me to make my next experimental turnout.
Its just to give me some extra ideas for construction.
A close look on my n scale tracks just not give me the solution i need: 3d printing all the frogs including pockets to seat the rail in, that is something i really would like to avoid
20200609_113203.jpg

The yellow plastic are 5mm fillers, those are going to be 3mm
The approach of the frog is way to wide.
I am not really satisfied by this.

20200609_113150.jpg

Throw-bar and toes will get also a major upgrade, that one is clear.
Thanks in advance and for the trouble, best Igor
 
Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

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There is a lot of information out on the net on building turnouts, just not here on this forum.

you might investigate "fast tracks" Fast Tracks - Helping the World Build Better Railroads

google "scratch build turnouts model trains" .... TONS of information

My opinion is that your method to slot the ties and and use the slots to locate rails, and make the wing rails as you have is incompatible with your stated goal: " i am building my own track, as precise as possible as close as i can to the real life thing. "

Since your other goal is to do it as inexpensively as possible, I suggest you consider casting your own frogs, thus having the ability to keep those critical dimensions irrespective of the slots for the rest of the rails. And yes, you need to change your points philosophy, as discussed before.

That's my opinion....

Best of luck, Greg
 
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Paul M

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You're probably suffering from information overload!
 
Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

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I don't think that looking at pictures is going to solve your problem making frogs, getting the specifications is where I would start, but I've already said this and given the links.

You say you don't want to 3d print the frog, well, cast or printed that's your best choice, but I would not make the frogs from plastic that is not designed for UV resistance or heat.

Greg
 
Melbournesparks

Melbournesparks

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You can definitely over think this, frogs aren't really that complicated. The most important thing is just to make sure they're consistent and in gauge. Here's a real world example of a very minimalist frog, in fact it is nothing more than a flat metal plate, without any flangeways at all. The two tracks on the left are standard gauge and 4 foot gauge (I think?), the one on the right is standard gauge only. Museum of transport and technology, Auckland.


IMG_8889small2.jpg
 
justme igor

justme igor

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getting the specifications is where I would start, but I've already said this and given the links.
Yes, and i already repleted to that threat and thanked you for your work at your site: great job! was keeping me busy with learning and determent on some fixed and solid measurements/numbers, rule out what i dont want, my thoughts on that is: slightly following "your opinion" and going to follow aristo as mentioned earlier.
"our hobby providing everything, except...."
This thread is more for the frog.
As far for casting, it is very doable and can give a very good end result, problem is: i must make then a ~10-12 different casting molds.
I dont think i can get away with one fixed mold, make a adaptable mold, would loosen the tolerances aswel.
So printing (hard plastic, uv resistance) could be a option or welding/soldering.
Routing is not possible, the smallest cutter i could find was 4mm in dia=to big.
I am also planning to make a jig for the saw table to cut out the groves at the desired dept, that jig could be fixed in any angle, both sides.(alu cutting!)
Bending alu wont give me the satisfaction i want.
Regarding your remark about the slots in the ties: As long as it is experimental, i wont put in extra effort for those slots, the strait and curved pieces have way better slots,(2.1mm), inside the rail is 44.8 to 45.0mm on strait track, curves (from 2 meter to 3 meter radius) 45.0 to 45.2mm

My opinion is that your method to slot the ties and and use the slots to locate rails, and make the wing rails as you have is incompatible with your stated goal: " i am building my own track, as precise as possible as close as i can to the real life thing
I am still not satisfied with that end result, probably a lot more experiments will follow, before i have something that i like.
And the check rail!

You're probably suffering from information overload!
Thats why i want to narrow it down, probably my demands(incl how to make) are to demanding.
 
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Paul M

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You can definitely over think this, frogs aren't really that complicated. The most important thing is just to make sure they're consistent and in gauge. Here's a real world example of a very minimalist frog, in fact it is nothing more than a flat metal plate, without any flangeways at all. The two tracks on the left are standard gauge and 4 foot gauge (I think?), the one on the right is standard gauge only. Museum of transport and technology, Auckland.


View attachment 267945
How does that work? Obviously the Tram will be lead into direction by the flanged wheel on one side, but won't the other rise up, or is the plate below flange height, it looks almost level with the rails
 
Melbournesparks

Melbournesparks

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How does that work? Obviously the Tram will be lead into direction by the flanged wheel on one side, but won't the other rise up, or is the plate below flange height, it looks almost level with the rails
That's pretty much it, all the guidance is provided by the running rail and the check rail on the opposite side. The plate is approximately level with the bottom of the flangeway, or just above. It probably makes a bit of a bump, but it is a very low speed area inside the depot.
 
PhilP

PhilP

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It is very clever, and simple..
But then, tramway's tended to be??

I don't think you could get away with a solution like that on 'mainline' railways? :think:
 
dunnyrail

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You can definitely over think this, frogs aren't really that complicated. The most important thing is just to make sure they're consistent and in gauge. Here's a real world example of a very minimalist frog, in fact it is nothing more than a flat metal plate, without any flangeways at all. The two tracks on the left are standard gauge and 4 foot gauge (I think?), the one on the right is standard gauge only. Museum of transport and technology, Auckland.


View attachment 267945
Yes if could well be 4ft Gauge, apparently Wellington Trams are that.
 
justme igor

justme igor

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If the easy and cheap way does not give the desired results, then i must get a step up. :angel:
20200610_122255.jpg

It is made in foam pvc, not the best stuff, but it is trail and error: experimental!

20200610_145009.jpg


With aluminium it looks really good aldo i don't not have the proper tools for alu.
When i was making the slots for the strips it went pretty wrong as you can see.
Point of the frog had to be at 3 quarters and not half way also.
The pencil markings must be cut away.
A while ago i saw a cutter bit for in a standing/fixed drill, i will google for that(must be 2.5mm in dia)

So far i am ~pleased with the end result, but material wise i think i stick to hard wood or order some pvc or hdpe.
Most of the frogs will be flange baring, the minimum radius i want to have makes the gap just to big, i will stick to 2mm deep and 2,5mm wide.

So far, so good?? tips, hints, advice and thoughts is appreciated.
 
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