Bachmann Connie. NOW FOUND

[Greg Elmassian]

Whole different animal.... kind of like comparing a jeep to a ferrari.... offroad the jeep is better, on a road course the ferrari wins.

Accucraft models are very pretty, terrible electrics, more maintenance, more finicky on trackwork, but really nice looking.

If you want to run it a lot, you need better trackwork than the Bachmann requires... also battery, DC or DCC?

Greg

 

[maxi-model]

I would echo what Greg is saying about the Bachmann C-19. Which is probably why you don't see them come up on the 2nd hand market too often...... yet. There is a good reliable seller in the US Items for sale by ana.kramer | eBay who seems to have a line into new/old stock for these and other Bachmann 1:20.3 scale products. Expect to pay around £600, landed, for a C-19 NIB.

The Bachmann loco that is generally referred to as the "Connie" in the forums by their owners is the original 2-8-0 that Bachmann made based on the Mexican 2'6" gauge type. The one you have been looking at in all probability. By the time Bachmann got round to the C-19 they had ironed out most of the issues that bedeviled their range and had the result in depressing resale values on most. Lucky us that held out for 2nd hand models. My favorite in their range is the 2-8-2 K-27 Mikado.

 

[maxi-model]

Accucraft models are very pretty, terrible electrics, more maintenance, more finicky on trackwork, but really nice looking. If you want to run it a lot, you need better trackwork than the Bachmann requires... also battery, DC or DCC?
Greg

Don't I know it Max

 

[Rhinochugger]

Thanks Rhino , that's incredibly helpful. I remember reading now, a thread about the longer screw fix (it may well have been a thread of yours )

I'll be sure to work on the principle that any purchase needs to involve the drive gear upgrade!

Does £430 for an un-run one sound reasonable, would you say?

Yep, you've seen the advice.

I bought one brand new for £200 - I think the shop owner (well respected on this forum at the time) needed to clear some space.

I bought the second one allegedly used, but with very little (or no) wheel wear for £200.

Even when your heart rules your head, I'd be aiming to stick within £250 and would be very reluctant to go as far as £300.

Greg is correct - Consolidation is a wheel arrangement of 2-8-0. However, in marketing terms, Bachmann called their earlier model (which is a bit of a generic loco with unknown provenance - could be Mexican 2' -6" or could be Cuban 3' - 0") a Consolidation which is referred to largely as the Connie.

They later produced the D&RGW C-19, and inside framed 2-8-0 which is one of the better Spectrum locos produced in this scale and does not have any of the issues that the outside framed Connie has. Again, a nice runner with a flywheel motor, and an accurate prototype - but you'll need to pay more. I was very lucky and snatched one at under £400 but, as I say, I was lucky.

Here we go with both types in action. You'll work out which is which

 

[DGE-Railroad]

Whole different animal.... kind of like comparing a jeep to a ferrari.... offroad the jeep is better, on a road course the ferrari wins.

Accucraft models are very pretty, terrible electrics, more maintenance, more finicky on trackwork, but really nice looking.

If you want to run it a lot, you need better trackwork than the Bachmann requires... also battery, DC or DCC?

Greg

Thanks again Greg. Got it. Comes down more on the form side than the function...
I'm unlikely to be running it a lot, so the fact it's a bit finnicky may not be so much of an issue for me. I have to admit to being swayed by looks. I suppose the Bachmann can be detailed further but if the Aristo looks a lot nicer without my shoddy attempts, that's probably a bonus.

Most likely battery if it's a practical conversion, otherwise I could go either DC or DCC.

Doing a bit of Aristocraft-specific research, it reads as though that's been through a few incarnations; some seem to be boxed as 2-8-0 and some boxed as consolidation (which I guess reflects a revamp at some point, maybe reflected in wiring/connectors from what I can gather?)

 

[DGE-Railroad]

Don't I know it Max

 

[Rhinochugger]

There are several locos made by Bachmann that are called consolidations, in fact "connie" was used for the earlier outside frame loco, which indeed had issues as listed above.

In later production, you could get a brass gear on the main driving axle, that helped a bit.

Out of production. If not with brass gear, order one now if you are buying it.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Current production C-19 Consolidation below:

Not outside framed, has new wiring and socked, probably best large scale loco they ever built.

Greg, I'm not sure that's a Bachmann C-19 - I think it's a 4-6-0 with a Barry's Big Trains 2-8-0 chassis - Barry did a 2-8-0 conversion for the Bug Mauler / Annie

 

[Rhinochugger]

Thanks again Greg. Got it. Comes down more on the form side than the function...
I'm unlikely to be running it a lot, so the fact it's a bit finnicky may not be so much of an issue for me. I have to admit to being swayed by looks. I suppose the Bachmann can be detailed further but if the Aristo looks a lot nicer without my shoddy attempts, that's probably a bonus.

Most likely battery if it's a practical conversion, otherwise I could go either DC or DCC.

Doing a bit of Aristocraft-specific research, it reads as though that's been through a few incarnations; some seem to be boxed and 2-8-0 and some boxed as consolidation (which I guess reflects a revamp at some point, maybe reflected in wiring/connectors from what I can gather?)

Ah, again be careful with Aristocraft.

The C-16 was produced in at least two different forms. The early version(s) had what is commonly referred to as a 'brick' mechanism (which could be purchased as a spare part) quite useful but quite heavy on current and not as good as one would have liked on current collection. I say version(s) because I don't think it changed materially despite various colours / styles / names of packaging.

Later, they re-machined it and it was produced with a belt-drive motor and separate gearboxes on each axle. I have never got my hands on one of these, but I was led to believe that it was much improved. I didn't chase too hard after one because it is built to 1:24 and by that time I had majored on 1:20.3 (Fn3).

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Thanks Greg. Yes I'm with you there. Bit of a head v heart thing

On a not un-related note, and given your experience, how does the Accucraft C16 stack up in your opinion?

WAIT! You first question was ACCUCRAFT C16, but in post #20 I would swear you said ARISTOCRAFT

Anyway, my comments were on ACCUCRAFT

Now, AristoCraft C16, not a bad loco, not near the level of detail, good running.
Also, AristoCraft made a 2-8-0 consolidation, their last steamer made, very nice looking loco, but big issues with gauge of the wheels, and very poor contour on the wheels themselves, some were so overgauge literally walked up out of the rails. I do not recommend this loco to anyone unless you know how to re-gauge the wheels, and it takes machining to do so! (like a lathe)

Greg

 

[DGE-Railroad]

Gargh! Aristocraft. Sorry Greg, my bad. I wasn't concentrating (trying to get my 3yo to bed and he kept thrashing around, kicking the phone )
I had come to the conclusion that I wasn't as enamoured with it's looks (and also saw the number of issues you'd uncovered with it)

 

[Rhinochugger]

Here's the Aristocraft C-16 - the later version with upgraded mechanism (you can tell by the wheels - the early version(s) had plastic inners)



and here's a picture of the underside, with four separate gearboxes.



Greg's website has a photo of the standard gauge version to avoid

 

[beavercreek]

To put the cat amongst the pigeons...
Aristocraft made two versions of their 2-8-0 narrow gauge old time consolidation. and were formerly rebadged Delton models.
The later one (easily identified by the different plug connecting to the tender), had a revised 'prime mover' chassis with more vertical play on the drive axles which was always a problem with the earlier ones having all fixed axles not liking uneven track. The drivers could slip on their axles under strain but this was easily overcome by checking the axle/wheel scres and using a little loctiite.

They also did a 1:29 mainline 2-8-0 which had a 'prime mover' chassis with a 'gearbox' for each axle and one motor. A very nice model but the back to back wheel gauging and wheel flanging can be problematic for curves and pointwork.

I have examples of all of the Aristocraft 2-8-0 (1:24 and 1:29) and also Bachmann's 1:20.3 C19.
The Bachmann is a much higher end model and is a great performer. BUT the Aristo little C16 is a great little engine and looks pretty good in front of 1:24 or 1:22.5 rolling stock. The mainline 2-8-0 is a curates egg...great detail but you need to do a lot to it to overcome the wheel-gauge/flange problems ( I got a new Aristocraft 2-8-8-2 chassis and swapped it over.)

OLD TIMER original 'ex Delton' 2-8-0


the earlier C16 motor chassis block



showing the later revised chassis and new tender electrical connector


catalogue entry showing spec for the later version of the C16



MAINLINE 2-8-0

 

[Rhinochugger]

Just had a look on evilbay - if you're looking at the two being offered by 'gostude', one claims to have a replaced drive axle.

They're both way too expensive, but then he's the guy who got burned selling me a C-19 for £365

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Actually, my site has both the old and new Aristo versions. You only went to the main page apparently.

On the main page, on the very top, in red it has:

(remember: links to sub-pages at the bottom of this page)

click to jump to the bottom

And at the bottom of that page are links to both versions.

Greg

2-8-0 C-16

Greg Elmassian web site on large scale trains and garden railroads, cigars, and computers

elmassian.com

 

[Rhinochugger]

Actually, my site has both the old and new Aristo versions. You only went to the main page apparently.

On the main page, on the very top, in red it has:

(remember: links to sub-pages at the bottom of this page)

click to jump to the bottom

And at the bottom of that page are links to both versions.

Greg

2-8-0 C-16

Greg Elmassian web site on large scale trains and garden railroads, cigars, and computers

elmassian.com

No, I picked it up from google images, sorry

 

[Greg Elmassian]

So, please do not judge the functioning/contents of my site without visiting please! Google is ok, but not completely thorough.

It has pretty pictures AND explanatory text as a bonus!

 

[PhilP]

One thing to note (depending how new you are to this, but a useful 'heads-up' for others reading this thread)..

Note the minimum curve radii for these loco's. - You definitely don't want any LGB R1 on your layout.

 

[Rhinochugger]

So, please do not judge the functioning/contents of my site without visiting please! Google is ok, but not completely thorough.

It has pretty pictures AND explanatory text as a bonus!

Yes and no sir - Google was only half my friend that time

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Yeah, getting pictures is kind of weird, because Google does not always "get" the surrounding text right as a description, and thus a search term.

You can really mess it up with putting a weird name on the file.

In any case, the old version actually was not really bad, but you just cannot get parts and it's not a robust as the new C-16 Aristo. The new one has gotten pretty favorable reviews on the drivetrain.

Greg

 

[Rhinochugger]

Yeah, getting pictures is kind of weird, because Google does not always "get" the surrounding text right as a description, and thus a search term.

You can really mess it up with putting a weird name on the file.

In any case, the old version actually was not really bad, but you just cannot get parts and it's not a robust as the new C-16 Aristo. The new one has gotten pretty favorable reviews on the drivetrain.

Greg

If I do a search for Fn3 rolling stock, or especially Fn3 combine, Google gives me the pictures that I've posted on this forum

Just shows how far the tentacles reach