Bachmann 3 truck shay with DCC sound

[Richie]

Have got a Bachmann 3 truck shay that has a factory fitted DCC sound , I'm looking at running it at the next South Staffs meet with my new log train up till now i've only used it on DC so i don't get all the extra sounds . Has any one out there ever used theres on DCC as i'm not 100% sure that i can run it on DCC the instructions are not very clear to me as i've never used DCC before have asked several people who run DCC but they weren't 100% sure either ???
Have read on other threads of the sound cutting out over 16v what good is this if DCC is 24v ??
will this cause damage to loco and sound board ??
The DCC controller at the South Staffs layout looks like a early LGB MTS unit .

 

[ntpntpntp]

Have read on other threads of the sound cutting out over 16v

From what I've read about the factory fitted sound version, the decoder starts to cut out at around 18 volts. I think the problem was the decoder used by Bachmann wasn't really one designed specifically for large scale? I've also read that one way to reduce the voltage seen by the shay's decoder is to fit pairs of reverse-parallel wired diodes in one of the track feeds, to drop the voltage by a couple of volts per pair.

what good is this if DCC is 24v ??

LGB MTS at 24v is arguably not the norm, other DCC systems run at (or can be adjusted to run at) lower voltages. It depends on the system and the modelling scale. My NCE system is set at around 18v and I find that's plenty for my various brands of locos and my preferred style of running (ie. not belting stuff round at top speed). Judging by replies on another recent DCC thread there are a few of us out there who quite happily run our DCC at lower than 24v.

My 3-truck shay didn't come with sound but has a QSI sound decoder and hefty speaker fitted by myself - very nice!

 

[jameshilton]

My late father purchased one of these - unlettered. It runs fine on our DC controller (LGB) but I did wonder about connecting up to my Bachmann Dynamis to try the other sounds.

So is the switch inside the smokebox just one that corrects the polarity wiring on the motor between Large Scale and NMRA? I wondered if it had a DCC purpose too, the video/manual thing on the DVD isn't clear?

 

[Richie]

Many thanks Nick for all the info will ask at the South Staff meet what voltage is used on the DCC track .
Just don't fancy putting it on the track and seeing a cloud of blue smoke as it's the most i have paid for a loco .

 

[ntpntpntp]

My late father purchased one of these - unlettered. It runs fine on our DC controller (LGB) but I did wonder about connecting up to my Bachmann Dynamis to try the other sounds.

I'd expect it to run quite nicely on a Dynamis, it's a lower voltage system primarily for HO isn't it?

So is the switch inside the smokebox just one that corrects the polarity wiring on the motor between Large Scale and NMRA? I wondered if it had a DCC purpose too, the video/manual thing on the DVD isn't clear?

Probably won't have any effect under DCC. Don't think I've tried it on mine.

 

[Richie]

My late father purchased one of these - unlettered. It runs fine on our DC controller (LGB) but I did wonder about connecting up to my Bachmann Dynamis to try the other sounds.

So is the switch inside the smokebox just one that corrects the polarity wiring on the motor between Large Scale and NMRA? I wondered if it had a DCC purpose too, the video/manual thing on the DVD isn't clear?

Hi James
With out looking at the loco i think it does have a DCC / DC switch for power lights and smoke all set to DC at the moment i would take it these would have to be set to DCC if running on MTS .
There is also the switch for large scale or NMRA

 

[ntpntpntp]

Just don't fancy putting it on the track and seeing a cloud of blue smoke as it's the most i have paid for a loco .

Yeah I can understand your reluctance to take a risk. A couple of volts is probably fine but 30% more than expected is another matter.
I seem to remember KentKeith has one and I'm pretty sure he had the sound decoder replaced with something else.

 

[KentKeith]

Just don't fancy putting it on the track and seeing a cloud of blue smoke as it's the most i have paid for a loco .

Yeah I can understand your reluctance to take a risk. A couple of volts is probably fine but 30% more than expected is another matter.
I seem to remember KentKeith has one and I'm pretty sure he had the sound decoder replaced with something else.

Richie,

Nick it right, I have a 3-truck Shay which came fitted with dccsound - it would not make any sound when I put it up on rollers.

At that time the problem was discussed at length on the US forums and the option taken by most was to rip out the factory-fitted decoder and replace it by a new motor decoder and a Pheonix sound decoder. This was done by the late John Powers of Hobbybahn.

This option is somewhat expensive and in the future if Bachmann release a 3-truck Climax in G-scale (following the recent introduction of an HO 3-truck Climax) I would get the analogue version and add a proper G-scale sound decoder - unless Bachmann install a proper G-scale decoder

 

[Richie]

Just don't fancy putting it on the track and seeing a cloud of blue smoke as it's the most i have paid for a loco .

Yeah I can understand your reluctance to take a risk. A couple of volts is probably fine but 30% more than expected is another matter.
I seem to remember KentKeith has one and I'm pretty sure he had the sound decoder replaced with something else.

Richie,

Nick it right, I have a 3-truck Shay which came fitted with dccsound - it would not make any sound when I put it up on rollers.

At that time the problem was discussed at length on the US forums and the option taken by most was to rip out the factory-fitted decoder and replace it by a new motor decoder and a Pheonix sound decoder. This was done by the late John Powers of Hobbybahn.

This option is somewhat expensive and in the future if Bachmann release a 3-truck Climax in G-scale (following the recent introduction of an HO 3-truck Climax) I would get the analogue version and add a proper G-scale sound decoder - unless Bachmann install a proper G-scale decoder

Hi Keith
Many thanks for the info , it looks like i shall be only be running the loco on DC i don't think i will take a chance with the DCC .
Have seen a advert for the new Climax loco does come with DCC in both the sound and non sound versions

 

[Neil Robinson]

Have got a Bachmann 3 truck shay that has a factory fitted DCC sound , up till now i've only used it on DC so i don't get all the extra sounds .

A couple of my mates have recently acquired two (one each) Bachmann 3 truck Shays with factory fitted DCC sound.
They both run analogue only and claim that the sound volume is very low. One seems to think that the volume could be increased by CV variation. Has anyone any details/experience of this or even a link to a webpage with the CVs for this loco? If I get the info. would it be worth trying to alter the CV(s) with my LGB 55045 module?

 

[Richie]

Have got a Bachmann 3 truck shay that has a factory fitted DCC sound , up till now i've only used it on DC so i don't get all the extra sounds .

A couple of my mates have recently acquired two (one each) Bachmann 3 truck Shays with factory fitted DCC sound.
They both run analogue only and claim that the sound volume is very low. One seems to think that the volume could be increased by CV variation. Has anyone any details/experience of this or even a link to a webpage with the CVs for this loco? If I get the info. would it be worth trying to alter the CV(s) with my LGB 55045 module?

Hi Neil
The volume is very low on my shay why Bachmann didn't add a manual volume control under the body would make life easy . I only run on analogue don't have DCC but would be nice to turn up the volume and add on the extra sounds like the grade crossing which work much like the old sound traxx by setting the volts to activate the whistle and bell why they didn't program these at the factory . The book that comes with the loco makes no sense to me at all about setting CVs i haven't ever run the loco on DCC so can't set any of the CVs and i'm still not 100% sure that it is safe to run the loco on DCC .

 

[sammy]

Hello ana.kramer in America, and he as still got some on his ebay site if you are wanting one, just go to ebay in America and look for him, he got them last Christmas at a show but never taken them out the boxes.
len

 

[Neil Robinson]

Well I've produced a solution albeit not a very elegant one.
This topic http://www.gscalecentral.net/m174807 shows plan A. I didn't solve the induced hum problem but, as my two mates with these locos were happy to go with battery power to the amplifier, for plan B that's what I did.
The AA cells are 2500mAh low self discharge so there shouldn't be a problem with lack of use over a period of several months. The track powered 5V relay switches the battery off when the track voltage falls below that required to power the sound chip. It is all too easy to leave a sound unit switched on if it has gone quiet, not normally a problem but in this case the battery would slowly discharge.
I feared that using an on board track powered charger would cause a return of the dreaded hum, hence the charging socket. This and the volume control are accessible via the water tank hatch on the rear truck.
The entire system is fitted into the rear truck. I opted to change the speaker for a Visaton FRS 8.
The crossing whistle and brake squeal are triggered by a sudden increase and decrease in track voltage respectively.
The Train Engineer system isn't responsive enough to do this, so I'll use diodes, either wired to a section of track or in the power supply leads. These may be shorted out by a switch when not required for a short section of track or remote controlled relay to trigger the sound with the diodes in the power supply leads.
I hope this block diagram explains the system. If you wish to build something similar the amplifier wiring diagram and data sheet may be downloaded from the net. I've not included it here as I'm unsure of copyright issues.

CV adjustment is a matter of personal taste. I chose to alter a few as follows.

CV

29 Set to 5 for Analogue permitted operation, 14 speed steps, LGB direction with directional lamps O.K.
Leave cab switch on NMRA.

139 Set to 200 for increased brake squeal volume.

153 Set to 3 for medium speaker.

193 Set to 20, bell on voltage.

194 Set to 45, bell off voltage.

195 Set to 3, Crossing Whistle sensitivity.

196 Set to 2, Brake squeal sensitivity.

197 Set to 31 to turn all available analogue sounds on.

 

[Richie]

Many thanks Neil for the battery diagram looks very interesting and the changes made with the CV's
Still haven't had a chance to do anything with mine yet but will net you when i do .