Aristo FA-1 Lighting

electricity_bill

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OK so I am bored. Thinking about when the weather gets better, and I can convert this Aristo FA-1 to DCC. I usually take the opportunity to convert all the lighting to LEDs and looking at this one, I noticed that there is no number plate or red “light” as part of the front imitation side light. I was thinking of removing the green plastic “light” and replacing it with a 3mm bi colour LED. Any idea how difficult the removal process is to accomplish? IMG_8209 (2).JPG
 

electricity_bill

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Just had a look at some old photos and they show both front and side lights in what I think you are referring to as classification lights are white and not green as per the model.
 

PhilP

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These US loco red/green lights seem to be a bit of an aberration?

But getting definitive information of US running lighting, has proved difficult. :(
 

electricity_bill

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These US loco red/green lights seem to be a bit of an aberration?

But getting definitive information of US running lighting, has proved difficult. :(
USA Trains F Units display red and green.
 

PhilP

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USA Trains F Units display red and green.
Yes...

But USA Trains loco's are models fitted with red/green bi-colour LED's..

With respect: That is hardly definitive to lighting, and how used, on US prototypes.

PhilP.
 

electricity_bill

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Yes...

But USA Trains loco's are models fitted with red/green bi-colour LED's..

With respect: That is hardly definitive to lighting, and how used, on US prototypes.

PhilP.
Please enlighten me.
 
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PhilP

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Please enlighten me.
I am not saying it is right, or wrong..

I have not seen red/green running lights in the research I have done so far.. - I would not expect USA Trains models to be too far off, but I have not found an Engineer (Driver) to get definitive information from.

It probably also depends on the Line, and Era? - Much like headcodes etc. here in the UK.

PhilP.
 

Greg Elmassian

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It's wrong, classification lights were either off, white, or green.

Only red lights are at back of train, and not in that location... USAT did it wrong.

White is the only one that makes sense in rare cases, that means it is an extra... green means the train is an extra AND there is a second section.

All of this really came out of passenger trains, unscheduled extras, and trains too long that had to be split into a second section.

In general these lights on a diesel should never be lit.

Some diesels did have a red light for the end of the loco if not connected to a train, but not in this location.

So forget the bicolor, and make them white is really the only reasonable thing to do in diesels. If you want a red light for when no train is connected, a small red led offset in the headlamp nacelle is prototype.

Greg
 

electricity_bill

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It's wrong, classification lights were either off, white, or green.

Only red lights are at back of train, and not in that location... USAT did it wrong.

White is the only one that makes sense in rare cases, that means it is an extra... green means the train is an extra AND there is a second section.

All of this really came out of passenger trains, unscheduled extras, and trains too long that had to be split into a second section.

In general these lights on a diesel should never be lit.

Some diesels did have a red light for the end of the loco if not connected to a train, but not in this location.

So forget the bicolor, and make them white is really the only reasonable thing to do in diesels. If you want a red light for when no train is connected, a small red led offset in the headlamp nacelle is prototype.

Greg
I found this article in Trains Magazine Dated May 2006 which I think sheds some light on the subject.

Locomotive Classification Lights

Classification signals – coloured flags by day, lights by night – were once used throughout North American railroading. U.S. railroads used a single light and outer lens, with coloured lenses in between that could be changed as needed. Canadian roads used three separate lights; on diesels these were often located near the number-boards on the front of locomotives.
The purpose of classification lights was to help identify the train on which they were displayed. The three colours and their meanings were as follows:

White. Indicated an "extra" train not shown in the timetable. For much of railroad history, train-movement authority was granted by timetables. If a train was listed in the timetable, it had the authority to operate according to its printed schedule. Deviations from the timetable, such as a train running late, were handled with train orders from the dispatcher. Under this "timetable-and-train-order" system, it was important that trains kept as close to schedule as possible, and that any special trains not shown in the timetable be clearly identified as such with a white light. Many freight trains operated as extras, and thus carried a white classification signal.

Green. Indicated that, while the train displaying the lights was a regularly scheduled one, a second section was following behind it. This was done, for example, when ridership demand exceeded the capacity of a single passenger train. If there were too many passengers for a single section of, say, New York Central's 20th Century Limited, a second section was operated, and, if needed, a third, fourth, fifth, and even sixth. The engine of each section except the last would display green lights. While each section was a separate entity, the timetable's "train 25" would not be considered to have passed a given point until the last section of the train had gone by. For operational convenience, special trains that otherwise might have carried white "extra" signals were sometimes operated as advance or second sections of regular, but unrelated, trains.

Red. Indicated the end of a train. A train, be it a single engine, a group of engines, or an engine(s) with cars, must have a marker on the rear end. In the (relatively rare) situations when the last element in a train would be a locomotive, the red lights would be lit.

Classification lights phased out

The timetable-and-train-order system has been replaced by other forms of movement authority, and classification lights are no longer used, although older locomotives still have them.
Some railroads (including Amtrak, and New Jersey Transit) still use red marker lights, but most have done away with the extra items and just use the headlight on a trailing locomotive as a marker.

Emergency lights

Several railroads over the years have elected to equip their locomotives with emergency lights, which activate when an emergency brake application is made. The Milwaukee Road, for example, had gyrating red lights which the engineer manually activated in the event of an emergency stop. Amtrak's F40PH-2s sported a small red lens front and centre of the engine between the number-boards that activated automatically in a flashing mode when put into emergency.
On Amtrak's modern 800-series P40 Genesis diesels, the middle of the three small openings in the carbody above the windshield houses the red light; the outer two house strobe lights that flash when the bell is rung. (On older power, the strobes are separate elements located on the roof.)
Most Amtrak units also have two red marker lights, which are lit when the unit is on the trailing end of a train; twin-beam headlights and two ditch lights are also provided.
The F59PHI's used on West Coast corridor trains sport a unique emergency flasher/marker arrangement: Of the two red lights found just inboard of the ditch lights, one is the emergency flasher, the other is a marker light.
Amtrak's newest GE power, the 100-series P42s and 700-series P32AC-DMs, lack both the red emergency light and the twin strobes.

Ends
 

Greg Elmassian

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That writup is in error, in grouping red with classification lights, there never was a red classification light in the USA, the red is always called the "end of train" light... and if you do more research, you will see the red lights, when fitted, were usually in a different place, not where any classification lights were.

Anyway, more research will give you the answer I gave you....

It's your loco of course, I was just pointing out that prototypically, classificaion lights were never red, (plenty of discussions of this on the US forums with the final result as I stated) (Marker lights on cabooses were, but these are not markers)

My point was that the is really no reason to use anything other than white on a diesel, and even that is unusual in the USA (most railroads run all freights as extras, i.e. not a rigid schedule), and did not do anything special with lighting....

Understand the entire idea of classification lights was to indicate something unusual or different with the train.

I did find white/green common anode leds, but it was hard.

Greg
 

JimmyB

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But, what are classification lights ;), and what does the red, white and blue green classify.
 

PhilP

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But, what are classification lights ;), and what does the red, white and blue green classify.
Crudely,
Similar to the white discs used in the UK in the Steam era, I think?

Though a lot less rigidly than our regulations?


Moving on a little :
Ditch lights
Are these the two forward-facing white lights on the front?
Or, are they (under) the running-boards /footplate, along the sides?
Then there are Mars lights, Gyralights, and alternate flashing pairs? - All of which, seem to have a similar purpose?

PhilP
 

Greg Elmassian

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Lighting in general is a complex issue, and then if you really want to emulate a specific prototype, different roads had somewhat different rules.

Basically classification lights in diesels were really rare.... very common in steam... the real man's locomotive!
 

Fred Mills

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Since the subject is "Lighting", I must add that seeing model locomotives running in the dark with cab lights turned on is not prototypical...do you drive your automobile at night with the inside lights on....I hope not....
Leaving the lights on in the cab causes night blindness, so you can't see what is ahead....but I guess it just looks pretty, and no-one cares...they are only toys. !!!
 

electricity_bill

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Just to clarify an issue raised elsewhere but relevant. Putting voltage to one side as being adaptable, which has the greater capacity to keep the battery powered LED coach lights lights on longer, 1xPP3 9V cell or 2xAA 1.5V cells?
 
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