Are R1's really cheaper.

[Doug]

R5 going into R3 in front of the loco:

looking the other way with a similar transition from R5 to R3:

 

[jameshilton]

Wonderful Doug, that's what I'm hoping to achieve in some locations!
What have you used for ballast in those photos?

 

[Gizzy]

One thing to note, was that there was a shortage of the LGB R3 points a few years ago, which meant that many had to search high and low to find them. They became rare beasts, but now there are the options of the Piko R5 and the Train-Line product, as well as the LGB R3 point. There are also options available from USAT and ART and the more bespoke products.
However, this recent shortage of LGB R3 has forced many of us to use the LGB or ART R1 point.

Also, LGB R3 points come with a motor as standard, whereas you have the option of purchasing an R1 point with or without the motor. This is something that one starting out might want to consider.

In my case, I started with manual points, and then fitted motors as I could afford them. With around 30 points on my railway, I have only motored the facing points at the moment and left trailing points to work on spring action....

 

[Bredebahn]

One thing to note, was that there was a shortage of the LGB R3 points a few years ago, which meant that many had to search high and low to find them. They became rare beasts, but now there are the options of the Piko R5 and the Train-Line product, as well as the LGB R3 point. There are also options available from USAT and ART and the more bespoke products.
However, this recent shortage of LGB R3 has forced many of us to use the LGB or ART R1 point.

Also, LGB R3 points come with a motor as standard, whereas you have the option of purchasing an R1 point with or without the motor. This is something that one starting out might want to consider.

In my case, I started with manual points, and then fitted motors as I could afford them. With around 30 points on my railway, I have only motored the facing points at the moment and left trailing points to work on spring action....

If you really want to operate your R3s without motor then they are easily detached and you'll find a ready market to sell the motors on - try here for starters and I reckon you'll have your hand bitten off within minutes of offering. Alan's quite right about costs and so are others that comment that R1 points often come up really cheap - and there's a really good reason for that. If you can fit R3 or bigger then my advice is to do so, you won't regret it. If you can't, then sell up and buy a bigger garden!

 

[Doug]

Wonderful Doug, that's what I'm hoping to achieve in some locations!
What have you used for ballast in those photos?

Its green cambrian granite chippings from the local garden centre. Approx size is 5mm to dust. I seive out the largest bits as they are alot larger than most of the stuff in the bag.

 

[jameshilton]

Thanks Doug... that's great. It looks recently topped up? Very natural looking, wonderful!

And thanks everyone else - I'll be looking to exchange the motors with manual switches I think, as I don't envisage there being any benefit on my line from automation.

 

[Gizzy]

One thing to note, was that there was a shortage of the LGB R3 points a few years ago, which meant that many had to search high and low to find them. They became rare beasts, but now there are the options of the Piko R5 and the Train-Line product, as well as the LGB R3 point. There are also options available from USAT and ART and the more bespoke products.
However, this recent shortage of LGB R3 has forced many of us to use the LGB or ART R1 point.

Also, LGB R3 points come with a motor as standard, whereas you have the option of purchasing an R1 point with or without the motor. This is something that one starting out might want to consider.

In my case, I started with manual points, and then fitted motors as I could afford them. With around 30 points on my railway, I have only motored the facing points at the moment and left trailing points to work on spring action....

If you really want to operate your R3s without motor then they are easily detached and you'll find a ready market to sell the motors on - try here for starters and I reckon you'll have your hand bitten off within minutes of offering. Alan's quite right about costs and so are others that comment that R1 points often come up really cheap - and there's a really good reason for that. If you can fit R3 or bigger then my advice is to do so, you won't regret it. If you can't, then sell up and buy a bigger garden!

Good point, well made BB....

 

[WillemD]

If you need R3 points without motor, buy PIKO! Lot cheaper.
BUT keep in mind LGB R3 and PIKO R5 differ a bit.

 

[Gizzy]

If you need R3 points without motor, buy PIKO! Lot cheaper.
BUT keep in mind LGB R3 and PIKO R5 differ a bit.

My own opinion is that PIKO have a much better track geometry than LGB, whilst still maintaining compatibilty with them.

For example, the straight road of the LGB R3 point is 440mm. As most LGB straight track lengths are based on the 300mm length, (150, 600, 1200mm), you find you either cut track to fit double tracked facing/trailing crossover, or you end up (trying to) using the expensive 41/52/70/82 short pieces. A 450mm length would have worked better geometrically.

In the example below, you can see you would need to cut 2 x 10 mm and 1 x 20 mm to make the ends match up, and fill the gap in the middle. The shortest LGB 10040 straight track is shown, which is 40mm and costs not much less than a standard LGB 10000 straight.

PIKO have obviously realised this and come up with 280mm and 320mm track sections, which can be used with both the 440mm LGB R3 and their own 460mm PIKO R5 making a crossover easy and economical to build, without wastage of track.

Also the track centres for LGB are 165mm for R1/R2 and then 185mm for R3 and greater. PIKO have set their track centres at 160mm for their R1 equivalent and 320mm for their own R5. Much easier to work with. (An example is diagram 8 from the attached link below.)

http://www.piko.de/produkt_db/check.php?page=g-geometriebeispiele&grand_id=6&parent_id=3&sss=3

I guess the LGB geometry evolved over time, and I can't see Maerklin redesigning it to be easier to work with

(I won't even begin to talk about the geometry of the LGB Double Slip, with an R2 radius and 22.5 degree arc, which doesn't fit in easily geometrically with an R3 point!)

PIKO seem to be using the same quality materials as LGB, so I would consider their track product for any future track purchases....

 

[CoggesRailway]

So LGB R5 and R3 are made to look right when paralell? Didn't realise it worked like that!

 

[Gizzy]

So LGB R5 and R3 are made to look right when paralell? Didn't realise it worked like that!

LGB R3 arc (curved road) is 22.5 deg and LGB R5 arc is 15 deg.

(PIKO R5 like its near LGB R3 equivalent is also 22.5 deg.)

There is an LGB curve of 7.5 deg (1/4 curve) LGB 11040, which can be used to make parallel combinations of R3/R5 points, and this can also be used for parallel combinations of R1/R3 points....

http://www.dragon-gscale.co.uk/lgb-11040-curved-track-r1-75-degree-375-p.asp

 

[Shawn]

My smallest curve is aristo 6.5ft. I have always liked the look of the R1 or 4ft curves when running smaller stuff. Like Mik said getting the smaller stuff is a lot cheaper when buying used. I have seen too many people give up on G scale because of the prices for what they want. For me just running trains and building things is what i like. If that ment using r1's and smaller stuff then I would do it and make it work. There are plenty of small stuff like the hartland mini series. I have been thinking about adding a seconde line to my layout using 4ft curves ect..... I would run all my small stuff on this.

 

[korm kormsen]

R1 curves can be straightened, just remove the brass lip on the fishplate that locates in the plastic sleeper. Then, with care, remove the rail from the sleeper web, the rail should slide out. Repeat with the other rail. If doing say, half a circle, you will have six long rails, and six smaller rails. KEEP The sleepers and webbing. Now straighten the long rails carefully in the vice. Repeat with the smaller rails. Now the sleepers and webbing. The end sleeper will have a slot for the fishplate brass lip slot. Now fit a new fish plate or use the existing fishplate; slide the sleepers back on, but turn each sleeper 180* to even out the curve, or remove totally the webbing. Then slide the other rail of the same length, on to the other end of the sleeper and fit fish plate. When finished you will have three small straights and three longer straights. Job done! Now have a brew! Alyn

i am doing the same. with two things different:

i use the longer rails to make curves of any radius needed, and the shorter rails for straights.
(that way all straights have the same length, as the original straights have)
i do cut the sleeper webbing on one side only. (the outer side, if i want to use it for a straight, the inner side, if i use it for a curve) that way the sleeper-web gets the right length for the rails used.

to the title question:
that depends. new they are not cheaper. but as long, as there are many modellers out there, who like larger curves, on the used markets one can get lucky. (i got about 35 boxes of R1 curves for less than 12 euro per box - and now i'm bending... and bending... )

 

[C&S]

Cheaper to buy: possibly; worth less on resale: definitely, when compared to straight track. That's why I straightened out all my surplus R1s and used them in sidings, which then gave me some surplus straights to sell at a better price.

 

[3Valve]

Yep I'm thinking of straightening out my surplus R1s and installing them as straights behind the tree line on the new railway, that way it wont look so obvious that they're straightened out R1s and it should save me quite a few spondooleys.

New line is going to be predominantly R2 R3 nwo I have a bit of space to play with.

 

[korm kormsen]

Yep I'm thinking of straightening out my surplus R1s and installing them as straights behind the tree line on the new railway, that way it wont look so obvious that they're straightened out R1s

why hide them?

these are all straightened R1s:

 

[themole]

I've used old R1 curves, straightened for many years no problems to all, just like Korm. The other plus, by chopping to size/length, you do not pay silly LGB prices for short lengths ie 1/4 straights etc. Alyn

 

[Gizzy]

This has been a good debate so far, with some good points raised!

Rather like the monthly ones we had on the old GSM forum?

I'd like to say a big 'Well done' to Stockers for starting this discussion....