Alternating Station Circuit

Mike Bett

Beer, G Gauge, Beer, Cricket, Beer.
14 Apr 2010
201
3
Fallbrook, California.
Country
United-States
Best answers
0
Country flag
I am setting up a couple of Alternating Station Circuits.
Below is my rather rough sketch of what I propose to use, culled from my old LGB EPL Techniques booklet.

Are the connections 3 and 4 made directly to the layout transformer? and which of the two is the live connection.
Is the direction of travel important, do both engines need to enter from the same end, or can one enter from the opposite direction? providing the reed switch and block area are suitably placed.
2938C4C3-E7EE-4FF4-AD3F-CF607AD0D425.jpeg
 

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
Staff member
GSC Moderator
25 Oct 2009
26,076
4,976
75
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
Best answers
0
Country flag
Ok you have done pretty well what I did on this line.
I also got my concept from the LGB book and a copy of LGB Telegram, this had a revercing circuit with 2 trains going one way and one the other. I never worked out how that was done as there was not enough info for me fathomable the wiring. However it is more complex as you need to be using another auxiliary switch or two (10270) to do a DPDT (Double Pole Double Throw) reverce on the varying sections thus getting quite complex.

Your feeds 3 and 4 are used to power the point and are on an uncontrolled output. Your green wires as you show feed the isolating sections as you show, however if the next train goes into the same track as the one departing just swop the green wires over on the 10270.

Note on my line how trains start up and how for simplification I have not powered the point, that was for the future 12 years ago. Still not done!
 

DavidC

Registered
27 Aug 2020
12
1
71
Blandford, Dorset
Best answers
0
Country flag
Connections 3 and 4 made to the transformer’s AC supply, so it doesn’t matter which way round they are connected.

The layout as shown is a one way, alternate train circuit. The 10210 controls in the entry point directing the incoming train to the unoccupied track. As it passes the 17100 it flips the point, which energises the other insulated section and turns off power to its own track. That is the other train will start to move and the first train will stop when it enters the isolated section. The process is repeated when the other train completes its circuit and enters the unoccupied track.

It won’t work with trains running in opposite direction without considerably more complex circuits. That is, unless one locomotive runs backwards when compared to an other on the same track!

David
 

Lgb train

Registered
13 Nov 2022
11
0
24
Hhsjsjsjs
Best answers
0
Country flag
Connections 3 and 4 made to the transformer’s AC supply, so it doesn’t matter which way round they are connected.

The layout as shown is a one way, alternate train circuit. The 10210 controls in the entry point directing the incoming train to the unoccupied track. As it passes the 17100 it flips the point, which energises the other insulated section and turns off power to its own track. That is the other train will start to move and the first train will stop when it enters the isolated section. The process is repeated when the other train completes its circuit and enters the unoccupied track.

It won’t work with trains running in opposite direction without considerably more complex circuits. That is, unless one locomotive runs backwards when compared to an other on the same track!

David
I set it up but the only problem I have is that the train goes on track 2, switches the track to track one and stops but when the second train goes on track one it doesn’t switvv c h the track and stop.
 

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
Staff member
GSC Moderator
25 Oct 2009
26,076
4,976
75
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
Best answers
0
Country flag
I set it up but the only problem I have is that the train goes on track 2, switches the track to track one and stops but when the second train goes on track one it doesn’t switvv c h the track and stop.
Could be you have a faulty actuator (17100). Try swopping them and of course the wiring over to see if the problem persists.
 

Lgb train

Registered
13 Nov 2022
11
0
24
Hhsjsjsjs
Best answers
0
Country flag
Could be you have a faulty actuator (17100). Try swopping them and of course the wiring over to see if the problem persists.
I swapped it and nothing changed.
 

korm kormsen

Registered
24 Oct 2009
2,757
289
Country
Paraguay
Best answers
0
Country flag
I set it up but the only problem I have is that the train goes on track 2, switches the track to track one and stops but when the second train goes on track one it doesn’t switvv c h the track and stop.
have you tried to conect the green cables to the other set of contacts of the 10 270?
there are only four possible failures:
defect 17100 no. two
wrong connection on 17100 no. two
failure inside no 10270
a broken cable (no connection) from or towards 17100 no two

oh, or failure no five: have you tested, if both locos have a magnet, that is strong enough?
 

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
Staff member
GSC Moderator
25 Oct 2009
26,076
4,976
75
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
Best answers
0
Country flag
Ok another thing. In my vid you can clearly here the thump as the motor changes, I guess this happens ok?
 
Last edited:

Lgb train

Registered
13 Nov 2022
11
0
24
Hhsjsjsjs
Best answers
0
Country flag
have you tried to conect the green cables to the other set of contacts of the 10 270?
there are only four possible failures:
defect 17100 no. two
wrong connection on 17100 no. two
failure inside no 10270
a broken cable (no connection) from or towards 17100 no two

oh, or failure no five: have you tested, if both locos have a magnet, that is strong enough?
I tried the 5 issues that could have caused it to not work and it still didn’t solve the problem.
 

korm kormsen

Registered
24 Oct 2009
2,757
289
Country
Paraguay
Best answers
0
Country flag
I tried the 5 issues that could have caused it to not work and it still didn’t solve the problem.
in that case i would fall back to the very definition of insanity: repeat the same actions, expecting other results.
 

Lgb train

Registered
13 Nov 2022
11
0
24
Hhsjsjsjs
Best answers
0
Country flag
in that case i would fall back to the very definition of insanity: repeat the same actions, expecting other results.
So I took everything apart and put it back together and now when I turn on the trains it instantly switches the track and when I try to switch the track manually it just switches back instantly.
 
8 Mar 2014
7,806
972
San Diego
Country
Armenia
www.elmassian.com
Best answers
0
Country flag
That would tell you that the power is being applied continuously.

I gather the switches in the track are driven by magnets?

If the train stops over the magnet, wouln't it be on all the time?

Anyway, does the behavior you described in post #11 continue without any loco on the tracks?

If so then you have a stuck reed switch or your installation does not match your wiring diagram
 

Lgb train

Registered
13 Nov 2022
11
0
24
Hhsjsjsjs
Best answers
0
Country flag
That would tell you that the power is being applied continuously.

I gather the switches in the track are driven by magnets?

If the train stops over the magnet, wouln't it be on all the time?

Anyway, does the behavior you described in post #11 continue without any loco on the tracks?

If so then you have a stuck reed switch or your installation does not match your wiring
 

Lgb train

Registered
13 Nov 2022
11
0
24
Hhsjsjsjs
Best answers
0
Country flag
So I took it apart and put it back together again and now the only problem that I have is when the locomotives go over 17100 I doesn’t switch the track.
 

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
Staff member
GSC Moderator
25 Oct 2009
26,076
4,976
75
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
Best answers
0
Country flag
Ok so do you have a Meter? You can check the operation of the reed switch with the 17100 by a continuity check with the meter. Connect the meter to the two wires, if you get no change in reading that would be as expected. Put a magnet on the read and the meter reading should change. That would show your 17100 is working correct. Now do the same test with the 17100 but this time in place not wired up, do the same check with the meter but this time try to get the read operated by the loco, just gently push it over on the track. Try this with both locomotives to prove that they both operate the Reed.
 

Lgb train

Registered
13 Nov 2022
11
0
24
Hhsjsjsjs
Best answers
0
Country flag
Ok so do you have a Meter? You can check the operation of the reed switch with the 17100 by a continuity check with the meter. Connect the meter to the two wires, if you get no change in reading that would be as expected. Put a magnet on the read and the meter reading should change. That would show your 17100 is working correct. Now do the same test with the 17100 but this time in place not wired up, do the same check with the meter but this time try to get the read operated by the loco, just gently push it over on the track. Try this with both locomotives to prove that they both operate the Reed.
I don’t have a meter but when the locomotive goes over 17100 it changes the track and stops but when the other locomotive goes over the other 17100 it doesn’t change the track.
 

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
Staff member
GSC Moderator
25 Oct 2009
26,076
4,976
75
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
Best answers
0
Country flag
I don’t have a meter but when the locomotive goes over 17100 it changes the track and stops but when the other locomotive goes over the other 17100 it doesn’t change the track.
Ok it sounds as though one loco magnet may not work, could be too far from the 17100 or have we checked that?
 

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
Staff member
GSC Moderator
25 Oct 2009
26,076
4,976
75
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
Best answers
0
Country flag
There are 2 reed switches, being one in each 17100. If only 1 loco had a magnet on the base the system would certainly not work.