Adding Sound

[duncan1_9_8_4]

Right! Here goes,
My dad is now thinking of adding sound to all his locos, rather than purchasing anymore locos.
To start with he wants to do his LGB FRANK S.
The Frank S, has working dcc via a LGB chip, inside the loco.
Given all the above, and using Masoth (as the sound is loco specific), what will he need to buy, to fit said sound. If you could reply with all items in a list as to what is needed, then prices can be sought.

And, another question, is it easy to do?
Plus, how are various sounds both programed on the MTS set up, and also activated.

I am asking you as we havent got a clue. But please reply in universal idiots language.
Thanks very much.

 

[Gizzy]

He just needs a sound decoder and speaker or sound module if he already has the LGB chip?

Call Jeremy at Dragon G Scale and he will advise....

 

[duncan1_9_8_4]

if he has the LGB chip in the loco, does he have to have LGB sound moduel then?

 

[muns]

1 x Massoth eMotion S sound decoder with Frank S sounds (8212026)
1 x Speaker 57mm / 3W (8241010)


If I understand correctly, the eMotion S decoder is in high demand at the moment and a thus a little scarce at the moment.

 

[Gizzy]

Re:Adding Sound

if he has the LGB chip in the loco, does he have to have LGB sound moduel then?

No not necessarily....

 

[Zerogee]

Re:Adding Sound

Right! Here goes,
My dad is now thinking of adding sound to all his locos, rather than purchasing anymore locos.
To start with he wants to do his LGB FRANK S.
The Frank S, has working dcc via a LGB chip, inside the loco.
Given all the above, and using Masoth (as the sound is loco specific), what will he need to buy, to fit said sound. If you could reply with all items in a list as to what is needed, then prices can be sought.

And, another question, is it easy to do?
Plus, how are various sounds both programed on the MTS set up, and also activated.

I am asking you as we havent got a clue. But please reply in universal idiots language.
Thanks very much.

As other folks have already replied, a Massoth S is the best way to go; the speaker you'll need depends on the loco it's going in - Mark mentioned a 57mm one for the Frank S, I assume this is the right one though I've not had a look inside one of those locos. As Gizzy said, Jeremy at Dragon G scale is enormously helpful and can probably give you definitive answers.
Fitting the S is quite straightforward, it will plug straight onto the two track power pins in the centre of the LGB factory-fitted decoder board; take a look at the pics of my installation in the new KoF, here:
http://www.gscalecentral.net/m12897... to ask if you need any more help. Jon.

 

[bigjack]

Re:Adding Sound

If the loco has a chip in it, then go for a sound modual. If not, the personally I'd go for an ESU, oe of these http://www.dragon-gscale.co.uk/loksound-xl-v35-sound-decoder-2237-p.asp . I find that the Massoth (I use them as well) don't work quite as well when the track isn't completely clean. They also have more functions on them, ie firebox flicker

 

[Zerogee]

Re:Adding Sound

Can I just add that whatever route or make(s) you choose, I think that deciding to add sound is a great move - it opens up a totally new dimension to the trains. As soon as I bought my first sound-equipped loco (an LGB Sachsen Meyer) I was hooked, and now everything that gets added to my loco stable has to either have sound already onboard, or is earmarked for retrofitting as soon as possible. The only things I have that I'm not bothering to sound-chip are my track cleaning loco (because it makes such a bl**dy noise anyway!) and little old Gustav on his handcart - and if I could get a sound chip of him grunting and puffing away, accompanied by the squeaks of the mechanism, I'd even be tempted to do that! Come to think of it, maybe I could record some sound off one of the "art films" in my DVD collection.... it might even have some applicable cursing in German....

Seriously, it's not difficult in most cases to add sound, either as an add-on to an already chipped loco or putting a complete sound/driving decoder in an analogue loco. I've even managed to put it into a thirty-plus-year-old Stainz, so don't be scared of older locos, the split gearboxes are nowhere near as hard to digitise as it is often suggested!

Jon.

 

[duncan1_9_8_4]

Re:Adding Sound

I never thought films from the ''arts'' would be linked to model railway sounds hehe

 

[duncan1_9_8_4]

Re:Adding Sound

I'd love to do my USAT NW-2 but the doing it and electrics etc go over my head, best to get a shop to do it.

 

[Zerogee]

Re:Adding Sound

I'd love to do my USAT NW-2 but the doing it and electrics etc go over my head, best to get a shop to do it.

If it is classed as "DCC ready", ie: it already has an interface socket for a decoder, then it's ever so simple - something like one of the big Massoth XLS sound and driving decoders (or an ESU Loksound, as Bigjack recommended) should be a straightforward plug-in job, and I believe that a number of US loco makers already put a speaker in as standard, ready to be hooked up (someone else will have to say if this is the case with USAT locos - I'm pretty much exclusively European in what I collect, so I'm not too familiar with the innards of the US-made stuff).

Going back to your original question post, the very simplest way of adding sound IS to fit one of the LGB all-in-one black box sound units - just a two-wire connection to any suitable track power source (even the lighting sockets on the back of most LGB locos), and that's all you need. The speaker is built into the box, so you don't have to worry about where or how to fit that. The DISADVANTAGES of these units are their physical size - OK if you're putting them in a big diesel with plenty of space, but in most steam locos they have to go in the cab where they are a bit obvious - and the cost; as I mentioned before, they are considerably more expensive than using something like a Massoth sound unit. In the end, there are several ways to do it, and as they say, yer pays yer money and takes yer choice!

Jon

 

[duncan1_9_8_4]

Re:Adding Sound

i think il have to ask a shop. take a look at this example, http://www.pshobbiesandmodelshop.co.uk/massoth-8210026-emotion-dr-rugen-steam-logo-p-565.html

is this item a one stop shop thing, to add dcc to the loco as well as sound, or just a sound chip, which then needs another chip to do the dcc power part?

 

[Zerogee]

Re:Adding Sound

i think il have to ask a shop. take a look at this example, http://www.pshobbiesandmodelshop.co.uk/massoth-8210026-emotion-dr-rugen-steam-logo-p-565.html

is this item a one stop shop thing, to add dcc to the loco as well as sound, or just a sound chip, which then needs another chip to do the dcc power part?

The item in your link is a Massoth eMotion XLS, which is an all-in-one sound and driving decoder - ie: it's all you need to install in an analogue loco to both digitally-chip it AND add sound all in one go. The XLS is the big one (3 amp) for locos that draw quite a bit of power (typically 2-motor LGB locos - you'd need one of these for something like a Frank S with its motorised tender). The Massoth LS is a smaller version of this for smallish single-motor locos (eg: a Stainz or a U-class), and then the Massoth S which we've been discussing above is JUST a sound decoder, for fitting to any loco which is already digital; the little S module does not include a driving decoder stage.

So, if your loco is analogue at present (not yet chipped for MTS/digital operation at all), you need an XLS or LS depending on the size of the loco and number of motors. If your loco is already equipped for MTS (like you say your Frank S is), either with an LGB factory-installed decoder or an aftermarket one, then all you need is a Massoth S (plus a speaker) OR one of the black box LGB sound units.

The foregoing all assumes you are using Massoth of course, as they say on the BBC "other decoder manufacturers are available" and have their own similar or equivalent units (eg: ESU, Dietz, Zimo etc etc...).

Shop around carefully - with the 5% discount for GSC members, Jeremy offers that same XLS unit for just over £160 rather than the £190 that PSH are asking.

Jon.

 

[duncan1_9_8_4]

Re:Adding Sound

Fantastic! I understand now. Thanks zerogee. One last question then. Presuming iv bought the XLS one as per the example, i unwrap it, fit it, then what? Ie, how do you, for example, trigger the horn/whistle etc? Answer that as good as your last answer, and im sorted hehehe

 

[Zerogee]

Re:Adding Sound

Fantastic! I understand now. Thanks zerogee. One last question then. Presuming iv bought the XLS one as per the example, i unwrap it, fit it, then what? Ie, how do you, for example, trigger the horn/whistle etc? Answer that as good as your last answer, and im sorted hehehe

Glad it was of some help!
You simply control all the sounds by pushing the various function (number) keys on your MTS loco remote or universal remote - key 1 will blow the whistle, 2 squeal the brakes, 3 ring the bell, etc, etc....(or something like that, the exact numbers vary between different setups) - the best thing is to download the XLS instruction manual from Massoth, and have a read of that before you actually buy one:
http://www.massoth.com/dlbereich/down.php?kategorie=2&gruppe=7 < Link To http://www.massoth.com/dl...tegorie=2&gruppe=7

Jon.

 

[duncan1_9_8_4]

Re:Adding Sound

For fitting, one of my own locos, to run on others dcc, i think i might start with my LGB Shortie Steam Loco. Iv examined it, and its dcc ready with a direct interface thing. That bit is easy, even i can do that. But regarding sound, the tender has a slot, for a lgb speaker etc in it. But how does the sound hook up to the electrics and dcc of the loco, when it is in the tender, as there is no plug to plug the speaker etc into. Just the direct interface of the loco, in the actual loco. I really do appologise to anyone getting fed up of my thickness when it comes to these things.

 

[Cliff George]

Re:Adding Sound

Some of the LGB shorties had some electronics in the tender with sound. It was possible to fit a second decoder in the tender to control the sound. I'm presuming your shortie is not on of these? Shorties that were so fitted had a connecting cable from the loco to the tender, I'm assuming that even if you don't have one of these your loco will still have the mouldings/holes where the connecting cable would have gone.

If you only have the speaker in the tender you need to arrange a two wire connecting cable between the loco and tender, if you also have a rear light and tender power pickups (all worth doing) then you will need at least a six wire connecting cable.

An alternative would be to have a driving only decoder in the loco and a sound decoder, such as the Massoth S, in the tender. In this case you could (but I'd still recommend you did) not bother with wires connecting the tender and loco. You would need to add power pickups to the tender, if it doesn't already have any. This is easy to do with ball bearing wheelsets.

I hope that helps.

 

[duncan1_9_8_4]

Re:Adding Sound

My shortie has a jumper cable from loco to tender, and in the tender, the wires go to the head lamp, and plug socket in rear of the tender. No speaker, but the hole is there for one. But no where to plug anything else in sich as speaker or decoder. il post pics as and when i get home. Cheers.

 

[stockers]

Re:Adding Sound

The Nikki & Frank S loco is not the easiest of locos to make a first start into chip fitting. Because it has pick ups in the tender and locos and also motors in the tender and loco (all of which are electrically cross linked), fitting the chip takes a bit of thought - indeed, one used to put two driving chips in it back in the early days.
There is more than one way to chip a frankS with an XLS (which I use and am very happy with it).
The directional lighting ideally needs wiring to the decoder for front and rear so a further set of wires need adding between loco and tender. The smoke is probably 5 V (it is on mine) and it is strongly suggested that these are not wired direct to the chip as they can pull too high a current for the chips switched output to handle.

 

[steinz]

Re:Adding Sound

For fitting, one of my own locos, to run on others dcc, i think i might start with my LGB Shortie Steam Loco. Iv examined it, and its dcc ready with a direct interface thing. That bit is easy, even i can do that. But regarding sound, the tender has a slot, for a lgb speaker etc in it. But how does the sound hook up to the electrics and dcc of the loco, when it is in the tender, as there is no plug to plug the speaker etc into. Just the direct interface of the loco, in the actual loco. I really do appologise to anyone getting fed up of my thickness when it comes to these things.

Keep asking the questions - you is doing a great job !!
Will be very interested in the conversion on the Shortie - hoping to do something very similar myself.