Achieving a perfect finish from rattle cans

ge_rik

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I've been following Greg's thread about the scratchbuild of his loco on the kit / scratch build forum with interest:
http://www.gscalecentral.net/m93755 < Link To
http://www.gscalecentral.net/m93755...e to those like me (and maybe Greg)? Rik
 

Gizzy

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Yes, a few tips from the 'Masters' wouldn't go amiss....
 

robsmorgan

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Hi Rik
N.B. this is certainly not a response from an expert!! I haven't been satisfied with my results from aerosol cans either.

I would recommend buying a small mains compressor and several airbrush kits for around £65 in total from ebay.... I did and wouldn't go back now. Other than primer and base colour coats I find my rattle can results too 'Toy Town'.... So what I have done after those stages, is to apply a covering of Testors Dullcote which has given me a good flat base colour to work from, and then use the airbrush kit to detail, tidy up and weather my stock. These paints being acrylic are fairly easy to work with and nothing like as toxic in my shed!!

Best of luck

Rob
 

Dtsteam

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I am neither confident or experienced, and definitely not skilled, so I'll share some of my mistakes...

Nip out to the freezing cold garage on a windswept rainy night, grab a can and wave it over the model after a brief shake. Nip in the following morning and the model appears to be the victim of a drive by shooting.

Get everything - can, model & workspace - to a warm, ambient, temperature. (This takes time - I keep the model and cans in the house, and try to warm up the garage as best I can). Shake the can for far longer than feels sensible, then shake it again. At least 1 minute, 2 is better. If the can feels cold, let it stand in the warm and shake it again.

I have about a hundred further examples of how not to do it, which I'll save in case the thread goes quiet.
 

gregh

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ge_rik said:
What would be your best bit of advice to those like me (and maybe Greg)?

Rik

I hope someone has a magic tip. Like Rik I usually paint and rub off a number of times.
 

MAYBACH

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Hi Rik.
I would strongly recommend getting an airbrush and small compressor, you can't compair that to using a spray can, the two are totaly different and mastering a can does nothing to help you master an airbrush. I have been painting models commercially for years in all scales from N to 7 1/4 inch using cans and airbrushes. G scale fits in the middle as you can get quite satisfactory results with cans if used VERY carefully, but an airbrush is best. I would steer well clear of the cans by firms that do model paints, they are not very controllable and you risk making an expensive mess.
I always use Halfords cans and find a good match without too much difficulty.
The trick is cleanliness, heat and take your time!!! The model must be well scrubbed preferably in warm water with a dishwasher tablet and not washing up liquid, make sure it is totaly dry, then warm it with a small heater carefully, you need the model AND the room to be warm. Then next get the can in a jug of quite warm water, hot enough to hold your hand in without screaming :D. Shake the can really well for a couple of mins, then get it back in the water for another min or 2, then shake it up again and start painting, make sure that heater is off whilst you paint and there is no dust swirling about.
The main problem is people don't understand how to apply the paint. You don't really need to do several coats and rub down between them on models like these, you just need to apply the paint VERY thinly and evenly all over, going round and round. It helps loads if you get a little turntable to stand it on, the sort they use for cake icing! You want to dust the paint on from many angles to get under and round details, don't try to get a solid coat on in one go as you spray, just build up a thin opaque coat as you go round slowly, not dwelling in any area and it will colour up nicely without runs or sags!
This is the same whether you are painting primer or top coats, but with top coats you will get to a stage where the finish goes from opaque to looking like a solid coat of paint, this is a critical moment!!! Now you need to get a wet and even coat all over it to give an even and uniform finish, this can be achieved by a final LIGHT coat sprayed all over quickly. Then you can get the heater back on and leave it alone.

DO NOT be tempted to touch it or play until it is totally dry!!! It should be ok to handle after a couple of hours if using Halfords paint.

When doing masking use Tamiya masking tape, make sure the paint you are going over is totaly dray and HARD, I wait about 4 days! Mask it carefully and again take your time!!! press the edge down firmly with your nail to get a good seal for neat edge.
After painting you must take the masking off when the paint is only just starting to dry to stop it leaving a jagged edge!
Pull the tape off very slowly and back over itself.

Airbrushing is a very different thing altogether, it will depend on air pressure, paint manufacturer, type of thinners, mixing ratio, temperature, air brush type, room temp and spraying distance!! BUT don't be put off, all you need to do is get the paint to the consistency of milk, I test by dripping it down the side of the mixing pot and see how it runs down.

The big thing with either cans or airbrush is practice, practice, practice! you can do this on anything, even an old butter tub or kids plastic toys!

Hope this helps?
Cheers
Rob
 

robsmorgan

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paint VERY thinly and evenly all over, going round and round. It helps loads if you get a little turntable to stand it on, the sort they use for cake icing!
Rob (Maybach)

If you are likely to get into trouble using the family silver cake turntable - try www.axminster.co.uk for a 'Lazy Susan'

Rob (the other)
 

ge_rik

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Thanks chaps and particularly Rob/Maybach. I've not considered warming the paint beforehand, that might account for some of my issues. My 'workshop' is the conservatory and so the temperature does tend to fluctuate. I must admit I have had more success with Halfords car paints than with Humbrol acrylic sprays.

One of the issues I have is spray drift - eg behind features such as chimneys and safety valves, but also along the other sides when spraying one side of a cab. Maybe the cake stand / lazy Susan will help with that. Definitely worth the investment methinks.

Not sure I can yet justify the expenditure on a compressor and airbrush/spray gun combo. I do have a cheapo Badger airbrush which is powered by an aerosol can, but never yet had the courage to use it (I think I bought it around 20 years ago).

I have invested in Ian Rathbone's Wild Swan publication on painting and lining. His chapter on painting is fairly short - making it seem like a 'no problem' area. He too mentions heating aerosols but goes on to say investing in an airbrush / spray gun is the best option.

The info on masking tape is useful, Rob. Just had disasters on two models. On one I put the tape on before the paint underneath had properly hardened, and ruined its surface. On the other, the new paint peeled off nicely with the tape - I think I must have left the tape on too long.

I think I am learning from experience - but a few short cuts through guidance from others are really useful.

A friend of mine rates DIY jobs in terms of sod-its per minute. For me, painting is defintely a 10 sod-it per minute job.

Rik
 

MAYBACH

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Glad you thought my ramblings were of some use.
You really can't beat the airbrush if you have a model with any detail. That simple brush you mentioned would be a good start, but NEVER with an aerosol can as propelant, you need a compressor for an even and regulated flow, plus cans cost a fortune! I spray with between 25 and 30 psi.
There is really not any big secret to it, you just need to get all the things right first and then play with your paint/thinners mixture until you are happy with the result. I reckon if you spent about 2 hours practising then you would have cracked it and be able to get a great finish.

As for tape, yes you must have left it too long as the paint will have gone off and formed a skin over it all, this will take it all off or at best tear the paint and leave a rough and jagged edge.
If you do it straight away when the paint is wet then the paint may creep and ruin the line, so do it when it is starting to flash off, but still far too wet to touch.

When using cans, you mentioned over spray on the other side of details and cabs, this is when you need to do the big, but light spray over all the model in one go to wet the paint all over. When normally spraying you need to keep a "wet edge" to it, but models are so small compared to cars ect that you can't do this, but you can wet the whole thing quickly in one go at the end and so the overspray will disapear.

Cheers
Rob
 

ge_rik

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Thanks again Rob - really helpful stuff. I never realised before how important it is to remove the masking tape during the drying process. That tip alone will save me a lot of heartache.

You're beginning to win me over to an airbrush - are they really that easy to use? I think Santa may have to lug a compressor down the chimney, though. Already started looking on eBay. Are airbrushes which are being advertised for doing finger nails and fake tans (a whole new world!) suitable for models (of the G Scale variety!)? I'll resist the temptation to put 'airbrush AND models' into Google for now.

Rik
 

Dtsteam

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If you go for a second hand compressor, make sure its got a moisture trap. The little ones sold for airbrushes can run quite hot, and a drop of water in the airline will destroy the paint job.
 

MAYBACH

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Don't know about those sort of airbrushes, as I'm white not orange and don't have painted nails :D
Can's are fine for big plain things like coaches, but you will strugle to get into the small areas and on details without getting too much paint on surrounding areas, this is where the airbrush comes into its own. There are several cheap combo options out there and secondhand one's too that will let you find your feet. I would suggest a simple one to start with, don't go straight for duel action, the other will be the easiest to learn on. You may find somebody on here that has a set up for sale?? The water trap is a TOP TIP, not cheap but absolutely critical to a good finish.
Cheers
Rob
 

ge_rik

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MAYBACH said:
The water trap is a TOP TIP, not cheap but absolutely critical to a good finish.
Cheers
Rob

Are they usually built-in or can a a water/moisture trap be added?

Rik
 

MAYBACH

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Some have built in but you can just buy the little in line one, cut the pipe and pop it in.
Cheers
Rob
 

robsmorgan

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ge_rik said:
MAYBACH said:
The water trap is a TOP TIP, not cheap but absolutely critical to a good finish.
Cheers
Rob

Are they usually built-in or can a a water/moisture trap be added?

Rik


After my son bought one and let me borrow it for a month.... I bought one of these from this supplier,. I also received a v.cheap airbrush - too wide a spray, so researched and bought a finer spray version which was being advertised for nails & tanning.... works very well!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AIRBRUSH-COMP...Crafts_DrawingSupplies_EH&hash=item518c70d679 < Link To http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AIR...mp;hash=item518c70d679

Rob
 

ge_rik

British narrow gauge (esp. Southwold and W&LLR)
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robsmorgan said:
After my son bought one and let me borrow it for a month.... I bought one of these from this supplier,. I also received a v.cheap airbrush - too wide a spray, so researched and bought a finer spray version which was being advertised for nails & tanning.... works very well!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AIRBRUSH-COMP...Crafts_DrawingSupplies_EH&hash=item518c70d679 < Link To http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AIR...mp;hash=item518c70d679

Rob


Thanks Rob II

That looks a neat little gadget - and the company feedback looks v positive - not easy to get 100% with that level of custom.

Rik
 

Ferrysteam

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I use a fridge compressor to power some of me engines,wouldn't one of those be ok for a spray gun,
with a trap fitted of course.
 

rjstott

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I bought one of these from RDGtools and it came with two airbrushes. They also do other useful things such as diamond files, cutters etc. I have yet to master airbrushing but the tip about milk consistency of the paint sounds my problem. Airbrushing is very accurate and really controllable. The only thing I would say is that the compressor doesn't have an air reservoir and is on the small size for spaying larger areas. Still an excellent price and a good starter kit

Richard
 

Spule 4

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Ferrysteam said:
I use a fridge compressor to power some of me engines,wouldn't one of those be ok for a spray gun,
with a trap fitted of course.

A friend has one, yes. THey are great as they are nearly silent!