Accucraft Ruby - Steaming issues
- Thread starter The mechanic
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Interesting and informative article. However I'm intrigued by this comment - "The ISO viscosity preferred and most often sold for small scale live steam operations, and indeed for all steam applications where steam pressure does not exceed 150 psi and where there is little or no superheat, is ISO 460 or thereabouts."
OK. most of the NG locos we use (I can't speak for G1 practice which seems to be the author's area of expertise) generally are set to "blow off" at around 60 psi by their makers will happily haul a load under most conditions at around 30-40 psi. What intrigues me is the mention of "superheating" almost as an exception. What is inferred there ? Use of a lower viscosity/ISO rated oil than 460 ? Looking at RH's tech' section mention is made of a "superheater" tube as part of their design, running back through the flue to gain the effect. And, although I cannot find any mention made in the UK and US Accucraft spec's of that feature, it is certainly there on my Accucraft locos for seemingly thaT purpose (see previous post re' a comment from an Accy service agent).
So, what to do ? Or are the "superheaters" used on our locos classified as the "little or no" type. Max
What the article shows and the table specifically is as the ISO number rises the ambient viscosity does NOT necessarily rise with it, suggesting that chemical composition and additives can change either or both ISO number and viscosity.
PS the viscosity is in centistokes, and is measure at a constant temperature, I think its 40 centigrade.
PS the viscosity is in centistokes, and is measure at a constant temperature, I think its 40 centigrade.
It's been some time since my last post so I thought it time to give an update on my Ruby and her performance....
I cleaned the gas jet using the gas "squirt" method as described. It took some time to get it to clear and give a good symmetrically shaped spray, but perseverance won out in the end! I also took the opportunity to have a good "tighten round" of all unions etc.
I used 460 steam oil in the lubricator this time, gassed her up, oiled round and filled the boiler to around 80ml (not full - really do miss the Accucraft blow-down valve here, not used to measuring boiler-fill water).
First thing noted was that lighting up was massively easier! - the burner settled down and was hardly audible (had to keep checking to see if it was still lit. the difference was so great, AND more importantly, it did not keep going out! Had to turn the gas down about 3 times to maintain same level (flame kept increasing as she warmed up - this did not happen before!)
40PSI on the gauge took about 10mins, much better than before, but the best was till to come - put her in reverse, gave her a bit of regulator, and away she went! Couldn't do that before, and more importantly, she kept going for a good 15mins. I have a feeling that this will improve as I get used to her little "foibles".
Anyway, one pleased Ruby owner! - Thanks for all the input on this subject, I couldn't have done it without you!!
I cleaned the gas jet using the gas "squirt" method as described. It took some time to get it to clear and give a good symmetrically shaped spray, but perseverance won out in the end! I also took the opportunity to have a good "tighten round" of all unions etc.
I used 460 steam oil in the lubricator this time, gassed her up, oiled round and filled the boiler to around 80ml (not full - really do miss the Accucraft blow-down valve here, not used to measuring boiler-fill water).
First thing noted was that lighting up was massively easier! - the burner settled down and was hardly audible (had to keep checking to see if it was still lit. the difference was so great, AND more importantly, it did not keep going out! Had to turn the gas down about 3 times to maintain same level (flame kept increasing as she warmed up - this did not happen before!)
40PSI on the gauge took about 10mins, much better than before, but the best was till to come - put her in reverse, gave her a bit of regulator, and away she went! Couldn't do that before, and more importantly, she kept going for a good 15mins. I have a feeling that this will improve as I get used to her little "foibles".
Anyway, one pleased Ruby owner! - Thanks for all the input on this subject, I couldn't have done it without you!!
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In my steam locomotives, an Accucraft B4 and an Accucraft Ruby I use 460 steam oil. However, with today's heat and my small yard being a sun trap the oil was more like a 280. This post has been very informative, thanks. A second question about my Ruby, please? There is quite an excess of an oily/watery discharge from the back of cylinders where the rod enters. I have some new seals coming but I thought I would ask whether they should cure the problem or if the discharge might be something else.
Sounds like a perennial problem with steam engines of any size. Yes, the problem ought to be fixed by the renewal of the seals.piston rings. Don't forget to use plenty of STEAM OIL to ease the replacement process! Under no circumstances use any other form of oil to go inside the cylinders.
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It is some time since I began this post.
In the meantime, I ventured into N gauge but have come back to my Ruby.
I have to decide whether to have my (rather elderly) Ruby serviced and bought up-to-date with larger cylinders etc. or simply to buy the latest version of the Ruby.
This old Ruby is fitted R/C and with a chuffer pipe and also a pressure gauge. It does run nicely but has a number of issues (I never did fit the new cylinder seals) and the gas and water seem to run out quite quickly. There is always quite a lot of oily water dripping from underneath the boiler.
Do I buy a new Ruby or spend money on this old timer?
Members thought would be appreciated, please.
Thank you
In the meantime, I ventured into N gauge but have come back to my Ruby.
I have to decide whether to have my (rather elderly) Ruby serviced and bought up-to-date with larger cylinders etc. or simply to buy the latest version of the Ruby.
This old Ruby is fitted R/C and with a chuffer pipe and also a pressure gauge. It does run nicely but has a number of issues (I never did fit the new cylinder seals) and the gas and water seem to run out quite quickly. There is always quite a lot of oily water dripping from underneath the boiler.
Do I buy a new Ruby or spend money on this old timer?
Members thought would be appreciated, please.
Thank you
Personally I would buy the new Ruby and strip the Chuffer Pipe, the R/C and the Pressure Gauge for use on the new one if they fit.
It is usually more cost effective to buy a newer model than retrofit upgrades to try and make the old one similar to the newer one.
If you wish to keep the old one for sentimental reasons then consider mounting it on a piece of wood as a display; otherwise sell it to regain some money to offset the cost of the new one or keep it for parts.
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The oily water may just be condensate from the the cylinders, usually it would be pushed out of the chimney, but the Chuff Pipe causes it to leak from the bottom, or at least it does on my Chuff Pipe fitted engines. My advice, as I've suggested to you before, is join a local steam group, there's always someone who would leap at the chance to advise you
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Not just thinking about the environment, I do like keep running older items, rather than replace, IMHO we have become to much of a "throw away" society. So if it can be repaired (and you are able) I would go for the repair.
I am trying to make a determined effort to replace the cylinder seals in my Ruby. It's a question of overcoming my nervousness and biting the bullet.
Firstly however a couple of observations
The leak I have is coming from the sliding cylinder rod where it exits the back of the cylinder.
The seals I have are a simple (possibly) brass O ring.
A} From what I can see I should be able to detach the connecting rods by removing the circlip holding it to the wheels.
B) Then unscrew the screws that hold the back of the cylinder casting to the back of the cylinder
C) This should enable me to remove the piston.
D) I don't know what to expect then but hopefully all it will be is the piston with the existing seals (the ones I am replacing) in place.
E) I remove these old O rings/seals
F) Fit the new O ring/seals
G) Reverser the actions A and B.
Am I making this sound too complicated but bear in mind I don't know what the inside of each cylinder looks like?
Your further (repeatable) thoughts would be appreciated, please.
Thank you,
Sarah Winfield
Firstly however a couple of observations
The leak I have is coming from the sliding cylinder rod where it exits the back of the cylinder.
The seals I have are a simple (possibly) brass O ring.
A} From what I can see I should be able to detach the connecting rods by removing the circlip holding it to the wheels.
B) Then unscrew the screws that hold the back of the cylinder casting to the back of the cylinder
C) This should enable me to remove the piston.
D) I don't know what to expect then but hopefully all it will be is the piston with the existing seals (the ones I am replacing) in place.
E) I remove these old O rings/seals
F) Fit the new O ring/seals
G) Reverser the actions A and B.
Am I making this sound too complicated but bear in mind I don't know what the inside of each cylinder looks like?
Your further (repeatable) thoughts would be appreciated, please.
Thank you,
Sarah Winfield
That all sounds correct to me. I think it is likely that you will need to remove the piston from the piston rod in order to change the O ring -it will depend on the design. If so, it may need some heat to soften any threadlock that has been used; a small gas torch (I use a cook's one) would be useful for this. Obviously, you will need to apply a drop of threadlock when reassembling -it can be bought online.
Depending on luck, you may be able to re use any gaskets (they are often paper) but oil and water can make then stick to the metal. It isn't too difficult to make replacements if necessary: again, gasket paper can be bought cheaply online.
I would do one side at a time so that you have an assembled one to compare it too -and fewer parts on the bench. And work on a teatowel that has been placed in a tray, so any dropped or 'pinged' bits don't go astray. And finally, don't overtighten the screw threads -they are easy to strip.
Sorry if this sounds patronising -it isn't meant to be. It's just that I've made most of the mistakes indicated!
Depending on luck, you may be able to re use any gaskets (they are often paper) but oil and water can make then stick to the metal. It isn't too difficult to make replacements if necessary: again, gasket paper can be bought cheaply online.
I would do one side at a time so that you have an assembled one to compare it too -and fewer parts on the bench. And work on a teatowel that has been placed in a tray, so any dropped or 'pinged' bits don't go astray. And finally, don't overtighten the screw threads -they are easy to strip.
Sorry if this sounds patronising -it isn't meant to be. It's just that I've made most of the mistakes indicated!
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Many thanks for your reply.
No problem with patronizing me, I need all the help I can get, please.
I've just realised the cylinders can be accessed from both ends. One end is near the front buffer but it would mean drawing the connecting rod through the cylinder,
The other end of the cylinder interferes with the wheels.
Why oh why do I make my life so difficult?
Apart from anything else, I'm almost blind!
No problem with patronizing me, I need all the help I can get, please.
I've just realised the cylinders can be accessed from both ends. One end is near the front buffer but it would mean drawing the connecting rod through the cylinder,
The other end of the cylinder interferes with the wheels.
Why oh why do I make my life so difficult?
Apart from anything else, I'm almost blind!
I would expect the O rings to be nitrile, which is a polymer, not brass. Looking at the photos (taken from livesteam.com) you should only need to remove the rear cover. You'll need a nut driver to get them off...