Worn Points.

[casey jones snr]

After twenty plus years of use, I think it’s about time to change these points for some new ones:-

Locomotives and rolling stock still manage to pass over the points without derailing, but they jump and rock noticeably and I’m sure it won’t be long before derailments become the norm.
Both points are to the west of St Bernards Station.

 

[Gizzy]

They've done well will 20 years of almost constant running Paul....

 

[casey jones snr]

They've done well will 20 years of almost constant running Paul....

Yes indeed Gizzy, I’m will have to check all the other points as well. I have a few spare points but it could. Be rather expensive to replace more than a few.

 

[Gizzy]

I have a length of LGB 10600 track that I was given by my local model shop, after it was used on their window display shuttle for over 20 years.

I did use it on my old line, but noticed a clunk when trains travelled along it. Turns out the rails were 0.5 mm lower than the rest of the track!

I still have it, as my DCC programming track....

 

[maxi-model]

So, if the railhead has worn over 20 years do you have now what ammounts to something like code 225 rail, rather than 332 it started out as, or thereabout ? And that amount is dependent on how much each route out of tne point has been used over the years. If you replace the point you then may have a mismatch in height with neighbouring track, and different ones dependent on which route through an affected point was used most. Might it be an idea to take a close look to see why stock is rocking an rolling through worn points - all of it or just newer locos and stock ? Might deepening the channels in the frogs be a way of curing the problem without need to replace the point - the railhead and paths through the frog is so worn down that the typicaly generous size of the LGB wheel flanges do not have sufficant depth to pass through. Just a thought.

Impressive testimony to the base LGB product and your track laying skills though. Max

 

[Greg Elmassian]

LGB switches are designed with "flange bearing" frogs, i.e. the flange rolls and is supported by the flangeway in the frog so the tread of the wheel does not drop into the throat of the frog.

This is borne out by seeing how the flangeway has been worn deeper by the wheel flanges. When this wears down, then the wheels will try to be supported by the frog and wing rails at the frog.

But, due to the much wider tolerances of the gauge, back to back and flangeways, now the wheel will want to drop into the throat of the frog, since the design cannot support the wheel all the way through the frog (and the reason for making a flange-bearing frog).

So, the only option would be to replace the frog, or try to fill it in with a hard epoxy, but with that amount of wear I would replace.

I do not see a huge amount of railhead wear, if it wa, it would show up as horizontal "steps" in the top of the frog, where the wheels would be wearing down the plastic part of the top of the frog to match the worn down rails. I see no such wear.

Greg

 

[Rhinochugger]

LGB switches are designed with "flange bearing" frogs, i.e. the flange rolls and is supported by the flangeway in the frog so the tread of the wheel does not drop into the throat of the frog.

This is borne out by seeing how the flangeway has been worn deeper by the wheel flanges. When this wears down, then the wheels will try to be supported by the frog and wing rails at the frog.

But, due to the much wider tolerances of the gauge, back to back and flangeways, now the wheel will want to drop into the throat of the frog, since the design cannot support the wheel all the way through the frog (and the reason for making a flange-bearing frog).

So, the only option would be to replace the frog, or try to fill it in with a hard epoxy, but with that amount of wear I would replace.

I do not see a huge amount of railhead wear, if it wa, it would show up as horizontal "steps" in the top of the frog, where the wheels would be wearing down the plastic part of the top of the frog to match the worn down rails. I see no such wear.

Greg

There's a fair bit of wear on the outside straight rail on one of the points - possibly because of the wheels dropping into the frog.

It's certainly interesting to see a point that has been used that much. Casey probably runs more trains than Mike in a year, so after 20 years, they're probably due to be put out to grass

 

[casey jones snr]

Thank you folks for expressing your thoughts, they are very much appreciated. As part of the expected expansion of the CFR I will probably have to purchase twelve points, seven of these will replace the worn ones.
Unfortunately I’m not not allowed to divulge any information on the expansion at the moment. Suffice to say that I’m in a better position than I was a few weeks ago. The garden railway even had a positive mention in the Great Central Railway 2019 Annual Report. I will let forum members know details of the expansion in due course.

 

[PhilP]

Good news, indeed Paul!

 

[dunnyrail]

Thank you folks for expressing your thoughts, they are very much appreciated. As part of the expected expansion of the CFR I will probably have to purchase twelve points, seven of these will replace the worn ones.
Unfortunately I’m not not allowed to divulge any information on the expansion at the moment. Suffice to say that I’m in a better position than I was a few weeks ago. The garden railway even had a positive mention in the Great Central Railway 2019 Annual Report. I will let forum members know details of the expansion in due course.

Knowing your line quite well and what or how you run it. I suspect that you could seriously reduce the amount of points that you have on the MAIN LINE. Those worn ones will work well for Sidings off the Main Line probably for a lot more years. Food for thought Paul?

 

[casey jones snr]

Knowing your line quite well and what or how you run it. I suspect that you could seriously reduce the amount of points that you have on the MAIN LINE. Those worn ones will work well for Sidings off the Main Line probably for a lot more years. Food for thought Paul?

Food for thought indeed Jon. In the last remodelling exercise I removed four points from Priory Station and two from the east dogleg. These were all cross over points and rarely used for that purpose, however they have a similar amount of wear.

 

[Alec K]

Thank you folks for expressing your thoughts, they are very much appreciated. As part of the expected expansion of the CFR I will probably have to purchase twelve points, seven of these will replace the worn ones.
Unfortunately I’m not not allowed to divulge any information on the expansion at the moment. Suffice to say that I’m in a better position than I was a few weeks ago. The garden railway even had a positive mention in the Great Central Railway 2019 Annual Report. I will let forum members know details of the expansion in due course.

Been hoping to hear something positive about the CFR's future for a while, as you know, Paul - and hopefully this is it! Let us know more as soon as you have the clearance, please. Great news.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

It sounds like things are positive, better than before. I wish you good luck! We will all look forwards to your report.

I have a railtruck from Colorado with your name: Casey Jones

story on real one, still running: Casey Jones Rail Auto, Silverton, Colorado

 

[Sean.]

Can just the frog be replaced ?

 

[Sean.]

On second look .. not an easy repair..
Fred does Gilbert have something like the frog arrangement?
Does Marklin /LGB ?
Sorry I was thinking out loud..

 

[Greg Elmassian]

I believe the frog is cast as part of the switchbed, not a separate part.

The 3D plastic may not be tough enough, the LGB nylon is pretty tough.

Also, not aware that GLX has UV-resistant plastic, and you cannot paint the frog, at least the wear areas.

Greg

 

[dunnyrail]

Hm have I seen something on a German Webb site with a Cast Brass replacement? I think the the LGB frog can be prised out relying on a couple of serrated washers to keep them in place or am I imagining this?

 

[Sean.]

I believe the frog is cast as part of the switchbed, not a separate part.

The 3D plastic may not be tough enough, the LGB nylon is pretty tough.

Also, not aware that GLX has UV-resistant plastic, and you cannot paint the frog, at least the wear areas.

Greg

Aren't the updated aristo switch replacement throw bars UV- resistant?
GLX Scale Models Inc.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

They are not 3d printed... they are cut from a sheet of ABS or similar... completely different animal

 

[maxi-model]

So, here is a plan view of one of my LGB R5 points, it is relatively unworn. The frog and its attendant wing rails is a separate molding from the the base rail mounting "web". Inlaid to the frog are two metal "plates" that I assume are to support the wheel flanges as they pass on either path through the it. The uppermost surface of the frog, tops of wing and check rails match that of the railheads. So is the frog and its molded in wing rails available as a separate part and if you could replace it what would you do about the resultant mismatch with the worn down railhead ? And are the smaller radii LGB points made the same way ? Well that was fun to take a look at. Max