Why I used a Revo in my Tram

[JimmyB]

I'm interested to know why you went for the Revolution system, your pros and cons for the system would be interesting to know?

David

DafyddElvy asked the question, “Why did I use a Revolution Rx in my Bachmann Tram battery RC conversion”, so I thought a new thread to answer the question. To understand my answer to the question, some of my conversion background is required.

Choices​

When I first considered converting my first loco to battery RC, for me it came down to two choices, Omni from Fosworks, or Deltang from Micron or RC trains, and due to the single Rx/ESC I chose Deltang, and the 6x series. These did have a single drawback in that unless modified would not operate over 13 volts.

Deltang conversions​

I converted a Stainz, two trailing wagons for an Otto and HK Porter, and a Bachman 10-Wheeler, all powered by Lithium 3S (11.1 volts nominal). Generally, I was very please, conversions were compact and not difficult to set up for basic use including a MLS sound card.

MR001a Conversions​

My next conversion was a Playmobile 4010, which eventually was powered by lithium 2S (7.2 volts nominally), the additional voltage was to ensure the MLS would operate, but due to some issues with Deltang Rx was advised by Phil at RC Trains to try the Micron MR001a, a Deltang Rx 102 replacement with a Fosworks Cobra ESC 160. A few minor hiccups but this works fine. My kit built Railbus was next, and the same formula was used, MR001a, Cobra ESC 160, MLS run on a Lithium 2S, and again this worked fine.

Bachmann 10-Wheeler​

In the meantime, I considered that my Bachmann 10-Wheeler was a little short on power, and decided that I would power it with a Lithium 4S (14.4 volts nominal), which meant replacing the Deltang, and as the MR001a and Cobra had been so successful I would again use the same combination. However, I had issues with the Cobra, sent back for repair, and on receipt it would not allow the MR001a operate the MLS, and was informed by Fosworks this was due to the poor design of the MR001a and I would need additional hardware.

I mover to a Mtronics Viper, and this operated well, but as advises is bulky and the fixed wiring is very heavy gauge.

Bachmann Tram​

So now we are at the Tram conversion, my main decision was I wanted to power it with a Lithium 4S, Deltang Rx were out for a number of reasons, unavailability being paramount. MR001a/Cobra was an option, but I felt I had “burnt my bridges” with Fosworks, the MR001a/Viper was not an option due to the size of the unit, and limited space available.

Revolution Rx​

I had recently come into possession of the Crest Revolution Train Engineer, 2.4 gHz (Revo) that I am using to control my points (switches), which had also come with an Onboard Rx. Once set up this seemed to operate well, and whilst looking at the Revo website I noticed the “Revolution Micro Receiver w/Sound” operating at 7 -24 volts at 3 amps, and only 2.25"(57mmm) x 0.9"(23mm) x 0.4"(9mm) this seemed ideal to fit the tram.

Pros	Cons
Operating voltage 7 – 24 volts	Only generic steam and diesel sound
Power 3 amps peak at 6 amps	Special interface required to upgrade firmware
Feedback to Tx from Rx	Auxiliary outputs will only trigger sound cards, without the use of additional hardware
Onboard sound	Poor documentation with products
Sound firmware upgradeable
Six auxiliary outputs
Forward and Reverse LED outputs
Size: 2.25"(57mmm) x 0.9"(23mm) x 0.4"(9mm)

 

[DafyddElvy]

Thank you for the breakdown on the reason for using the system you have. Out of interest, did you consider the locoremote system, if you did and discounted it I'd be interested to know your reason?

I am just information gathering before I spend anymore of my hard earned £'s on further tram conventions, and considerations for future scratch built trams, thanks.

David

 

[JimmyB]

Out of interest, did you consider the locoremote system, if you did and discounted it I'd be interested to know your reason?

I am just information gathering before I spend anymore of my hard earned £'s on further tram conventions, and considerations for future scratch built trams, thanks.

David

When I first looked around I looked at Brian Jones, but found it expensive and thought it was limiting.
I did look at locoremote as well, but this is only good for 12 volts, the "Loco Remote Maxi with external sound triggers & lights" for my LGB is quite deep and has a maximum of 2 amps, plus you have to disable your phones Wi-Fi and then connect to the Locoremote as a web-server (if I understand correctly), also the issues of seeing the GUI on the phone in sunshine, in the end went for Deltang. However, having been given the Revo Tx, I though I would try it out - initially discarded due to cost.

 

[dunnyrail]

When I first looked around I looked at Brian Jones, but found it expensive and thought it was limiting.
I did look at locoremote as well, but this is only good for 12 volts, the "Loco Remote Maxi with external sound triggers & lights" for my LGB is quite deep and has a maximum of 2 amps, plus you have to disable your phones Wi-Fi and then connect to the Locoremote as a web-server (if I understand correctly), also the issues of seeing the GUI on the phone in sunshine, in the end went for Deltang. However, having been given the Revo Tx, I though I would try it out - initially discarded due to cost.

Fully agree with the cost of Brian Jones kit. I have Brian Jones sound unit in my wizzy cranks with a class 37 sound, to get a horn I had to add a relay to get it to work via my Revo which is the Rx and Tx.

 

[rentren]

With the knowledgeable help of a friend I'm converting some of my rolling stock with Revo+PhoenixSound to analog battery power and radio control (Revo sound is an invite to go get some quality sound ).
Big problem these days, PhoenixSound cards in Canada unavailable (I've secured two with some luck and look for some more). Quite pricey tho' ≥C$200. What other sound cards are available which will work with Revo, I wonder (note: I am just about 'electronic circuitry-illiterate')? Also, the sound is to be continental European (LGB 2095 diesel, LGB 207x U43 steam; my LGB RhB electro-veterans have their cards, they await installation).
A problem I found with Revo's control of an engine's head/rear lights ...seems not possible to have three headlights and one right rear light on. Front lights 1, 2, or 3, and when running the other direction 1, 2, 3 lights reversed. End of story. Atypical for Austrian and Swiss locos, 3 head lights, 1 rear right. Rewiring for lights may be a bit more tricky than I thought.
TNX for pointers.

 

[JimmyB]

With the knowledgeable help of a friend I'm converting some of my rolling stock with Revo+PhoenixSound to analog battery power and radio control (Revo sound is an invite to go get some quality sound ).
Big problem these days, PhoenixSound cards in Canada unavailable (I've secured two with some luck and look for some more). Quite pricey tho' ≥C$200. What other sound cards are available which will work with Revo, I wonder (note: I am just about 'electronic circuitry-illiterate')? Also, the sound is to be continental European (LGB 2095 diesel, LGB 207x U43 steam; my LGB RhB electro-veterans have their cards, they await installation).
A problem I found with Revo's control of an engine's head/rear lights ...seems not possible to have three headlights and one right rear light on. Front lights 1, 2, or 3, and when running the other direction 1, 2, 3 lights reversed. End of story. Atypical for Austrian and Swiss locos, 3 head lights, 1 rear right. Rewiring for lights may be a bit more tricky than I thought.
TNX for pointers.

Have you looked at MLS, this will work with a Revo.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Some switching diodes will allow you what you want with your lights. so one rear light is always on? that is easy.

I don't know the convention but should be easy.

Greg

 

[rentren]

Ok, Greg, I take it then to be easy and will query my acquaintance.

Then, JimmyB. - Well, yes, MLS has sound 'library' I did listen to before. Cards will satisfy N.Am. and British users. But there are no continental sounds specifically for Austrian 2095 diesel or Swiss/RhB electric engines. Phoenix does offer sounds for both see: Phoenix Sound Sound Library: European
Also, voice announcements with MLS are of course in Englisch, not in German (and otr languages in Switzerland, English, Romansh or Italian with RhB). Still, I might give the 'Light Diesel' a try. TNX

 

[Greg Elmassian]

What about using a small Zimo decoder (for the sound only), See this list, the Austrian list is impressive:

(they have the 2095 listed in 16 bit sound) They also have a big database of Swiss electric locos.

http://www.zimo.at/web2010/sound/tableindex_EN.htm

Greg

 

[rentren]

Gotta have to look into that, Greg! I thought Zimo is control+sound combo. - TNX!

 

[Greg Elmassian]

It is, but you can buy an HO scale decoder, and use for analog sound... $85 to $95 here in the us... look at the 645 series... all the sound files work in all the decoders.

What does the MLS card cost? About the same?

Greg

 

[rentren]

Nice trick, Greg, I'm so lacking in 'electronic imagination' MLS sound does not convince me, no sounds fitting EUR continental locos, and sound quality no match for PhoenixSound. For all I know Zimo sound is very good quality. TNX again!

 

[dunnyrail]

Hm

Ok, Greg, I take it then to be easy and will query my acquaintance.

Then, JimmyB. - Well, yes, MLS has sound 'library' I did listen to before. Cards will satisfy N.Am. and British users. But there are no continental sounds specifically for Austrian 2095 diesel or Swiss/RhB electric engines. Phoenix does offer sounds for both see: Phoenix Sound Sound Library: European
Also, voice announcements with MLS are of course in Englisch, not in German (and otr languages in Switzerland, English, Romansh or Italian with RhB). Still, I might give the 'Light Diesel' a try. TNX

I have found in all cards the “All aboard” message is present which is as you say hardly Germanic and untypical of British practice also.

 

[PhilP]

Hm

I have found in all cards the “All aboard” message is present which is as you say hardly Germanic and untypical of British practice also.

The Aussie 'twang' leaves a little to be desired, as well...

You can just have the guards Acme Thunderer, which is all you need really

There is a MLS 'electric' loco card, but I am not convinced.
Mind you, I have no experience of the real thing, to compare with.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Note on that link to the Zimo sound file database, clicking the plus sign often expands the description and has a link to play the sound... the 2095 sound file has this demo, as well as a little video of the loco running.

Greg

 

[rentren]

Meanwhile I talked with Zimo directly. They simply deem it pointless to use an item designed for DCC deployment in an analog set up as I mean to have it with Revo. There is no way to exploit by analog means the DCC options. - Sez Zimo. I take their word and end of story.
Meanwhile PhoenixSound cards are hard to come by. Which made me look for alternatives. MLS cannot satisfy either. So to say a 'culture clash', British sound for Alpine narrow gauge engines, steam, diesel, electric, station/conductor announcements - no go!
I'll be on the look-out for more PhoenixSound cards, pricey as they may be, seems the only feasible way to improve on Revo basic sound.

 

[Paul M]

Long gone are the days of Longmoor Military Railway records being played as background noise

 

[rentren]

This 'renTren' here knows naught about LongmoorMilitary Railway (will do a duckduckgo search).

And for the rest ...only select sounds are properly coming from an engine/soundcar, the noises typically generated by moving or standing train.

Station announcements, conductor cries and more are stationary sounds, should sound from a little sound system at a station. I have such recorded in Ilanz/Glion, the Grisons, RhB train about to arrive, announced tri-lingually, German, English, Romansh. I play that off the mobile and it's triggering is primitive ...my digit. Good enough.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

The Zimo person you talked to is unfortunately clueless. I'm part German and apologize for people not being able to think outside the box. But if you asked "using analog only", then surely they did not understand you were talking about a system that can control 6 functions. Zimo decoders can have multiple "trigger inputs". I'd sure like to know the name of the person at Zimo you talked to in Austria.

In any case, it can and has been done with many different brands of DCC decoders and the Revo and many similar systems.

Glad I am an engineer and don't take "no" as an answer without a reason. I can understand your desire to believe Zimo over me. Too bad, another possible solution squashed by narrow/inexperienced thinking (on Zimo's part apparently)

Heck, I even ran a QSI decoder (DCC) in analog mode from the original Aristo / Crest 27 MHz train engineer 10 years ago, same idea.

Anyway, all one can do is present information, i.e. leading a horse to water, but cannot make him drink.

Greg

p.s. would REALLY like to know the Zimo employee you talked to

 

[rentren]

Glad, Greg, for a dissenting view.

At ZIMO they probably realize just how inexperienced I am. While it'd be nice to end up with a solution using other than PhoenixSound (for the simple reason of their cards becoming rare finds), I'd be clueless how to achieve what is possible for an engineer. Electronics and electricity is only close to me in one aspect, that for the philologist explaining the word's provenience from classical Greek 8-/ Things are in deed greek to me.

This horse here, perhaps more of a stubborn ass would like to drink but doesn't trust the water in a manner of speaking. Should you though be able to put into some very succinct diagrams how things are to work, what to connect where ...well, great! However, I may not be able to pay for engineering work.

edit: no need to "apologize for people not being able to think outside the box." ZIMO exchanged with a non-engineer and stuck to what I could handle with ease. That's considered! Rather than talking me into an item I'd then gawk at cluelessly.