Which Make of Live Steam

tac foley

tac foley

Registered
11 Apr 2017
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Near Huntingdon, UK
Do you mean the one for sale in the sales section......? If only I didn't need to eat...sigh.
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
22,454
163
Tamworth, Staffs.
Do you mean the one for sale in the sales section......? If only I didn't need to eat...sigh.
Carriage, and excise duties, would kill that one.. AND it is black..
There was one at the West Mids. GSS bash the other weekend.. It needed (at least) a clean and polish..
I was not looking for that sort of thing, so only gave it a cursory glance. At best, it was very dusty. At worst, it had had spirit poured over it and lit. - Looked like.

That too was black. - DON'T tell me if they do it in dark-green! :shake::shake:
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
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St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
Scroll down to the bottom of the link I have inserted in post #5 for thr RH product catalogue PDF and you find them there. Max :)
Sorry missed the Basic Series, though it was Diesels! Yes they are all best avoided if you want or need Radio Control Reversal.
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
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St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
Lots of good sound advice; just for some clarity, most of my curved track is LGB R3, but I have some Aristocraft 3 ft radius, my R1 points are going, my Bachmann doesn't like them, my gradient is around 1:25. Having been in touch with RH, it would seem most of their locos will manage this.
Second-Hand - as Jon has pointed out, as a novice I would steer away from this.
Thank you all for your responses, 30 posts and no real thread drift :)
Bad memory Jimmy! Many moons ago I bought a RH Fowler Tender Locomotive when they were just introduced. Went to the old premises and it was demonstrated on LGB R1 Track! I had this on my line at the time and it ran just fine. Though I do not think you would get away with that with a Sandy River! Though I am happy to be proved wrong. Looks like you are looking in the right direction though Jimmy.
 
maxi-model

maxi-model

UK/US/ROW steam narrow gauge railways 1:1
27 Oct 2009
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52
Bucks/Oxon/Northants area
Though I do not think you would get away with that with a Sandy River! Though I am happy to be proved wrong. Looks like you are looking in the right direction though Jimmy.
Jon, at the risk of you thinking I'm being a bit naughty :devil: take another look at the link I posted :) Yup, there in the listing for the SR&RL loco it is stated that it will cope with LGB 600 cm curves. Blind centre drivers ? Whether it will cope with an R1 point followed by a couple of R1's in a reverse curve formation is another thing ;) Max

Edit - That is a rather nice looking loco now I think of it. A d you can get some suitable stuff for it to pull now from Bowaters. Must resist, must resist..........
 
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Perry

Perry

Registered
24 Nov 2017
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3
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Heights of High Wycombe
An inertia wagon is an inexpensive solution for a runaway steam locomotive. Zach Bond is the original thinker who modified a Zecar toy & this video shows what can be done. The connection between loco & wagon must be rigid, so as to push the loco as necessary. I have built one for a Mamod SL1 & it really is effective.

 
ge_rik

ge_rik

British narrow gauge (esp. Southwold and W&LLR)
24 Oct 2009
9,543
90
Cheshire
www.riksrailway.blogspot.com
OK. I appreciate that some people seem to like the idea of a live steam loco, but I am still yet to be convinced. From what I've seen, it takes about 20 mins to set one up, you get a runtime of 40 mins (or less) during which time you're tending to it like a needy child, then it takes another 20 mins to sort it out afterwards. They cost an arm and a leg to buy and if you want decent slow running you have to add a Slomo device which will set you back another £300.

I suppose it depends on what you run your railway for. I am more than happy with my battery locos. They are up and running almost immediately. I get up to 12 hours running from one charge. They seem to me to be less needy and I can make a decent battery steam outline loco for less than £150 - oh and they run very slowly and are highly controllable.

OK. I'll crawl back inside my box. But I do wonder about this obsession with live steam.

Rik
 
Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

Retired Oik
27 Oct 2009
24,213
194
North West Norfolk
Jon, at the risk of you thinking I'm being a bit naughty :devil: take another look at the link I posted :) Yup, there in the listing for the SR&RL loco it is stated that it will cope with LGB 600 cm curves. Blind centre drivers ? Whether it will cope with an R1 point followed by a couple of R1's in a reverse curve formation is another thing ;) Max

Edit - That is a rather nice looking loco now I think of it. A d you can get some suitable stuff for it to pull now from Bowaters. Must resist, must resist..........
Remember it's slightly on the small size as the SR&RL was a 2 footer - it looks OK with 1:22.5 stock though :nod::nod:
 
tac foley

tac foley

Registered
11 Apr 2017
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Near Huntingdon, UK
Live steam in a model steam engine is real.

Electricity in most model electric locomotives makes the word 'locomotive' tautological. Because the source of power is derived from wires or rails that simply channel the electricity from the power station to the motors, not a single one of them can really be called a 'locomotive' - that is, a vehicle that moves under its own power. True, on-board batteries make them locomotives, but the real things never had them, did they? The only successful full-size battery locomotives were those used down mines or around flour mills.

A steam locomotive, OTOH, IS a locomotive.

My 'Earless' takes but ten minutes to fire up from cold, runs for around 40 minutes, as you noted, and then takes maybe five minutes or less to clean up and 'reload' with gas and lube oil and is then ready to start on over. By doing that, I'm emulating what the real engineers had to do to get the whole thing on track, and that gives me great satisfaction. I wouldn't say that I'm obsessed with live steam and I can't deny that they can be a mite pricey by comparison with a mass-produced plastic model. And yes, they need to be tended, a bit like the real thing, but not a lot. Water might need topping up - especially if the loco is a Shay, a well-known water hog, but apart from that, what? With r/c the norm these days, even on many Aster and Accucraft models of Gauge 1 size, with servos powering the throttle, blower and direction of travel, you can sit back or walk around - your choice. I like to watch my 'arm and a leg' toys in action, so I'm a 'walker', and i don't have a single Slo-Mo to my name, nor ever will.

But a prime example of the 'pull' of a steam-powered loco in direct comparison to an almost identical electrically-powered model was brought home to me years ago. A brave soul brought his beautiful Aster/LGB Swiss horticultural college Beyer-Garratt along to a run, at the same time as I was running my Accucraft WHR NG/G16. True, the electric model had all the bells and whistles - literally - but the attention was inevitably drawn inexorably to the steamer, and so were the many onlookers who wanted to see REAL STEAM in operation. An onlooker actually said to me - 'that electric loco is very nice, isn't it? But the other one is real, just a lot smaller than the full-size version.'

So if you are a dyed-in-the-wool 'sparkist', then perhaps there is little or no hope that you might be converted. As you say, a steam loco costs rather a lot more than an electrically-powered model - a sacrifice perhaps made by doing without other things. I neither smoke [cigarettes that is] nor drink alcohol, although I use it to fire up some of my steam locomotives. At, say, ten pounds a day for a pack of cigarettes, giving up the cancer-sticks will give you £3650 per annum.

You can buy a couple of real steam model locomotives for that...and that doesn't include the £25 bottle of whiskey/whisky a week or bottle or two of wine with every evening meal.

Just sayin', is all.
 
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tac foley

tac foley

Registered
11 Apr 2017
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Near Huntingdon, UK
I'd like to add that I also have about twenty track-powered 'locomotives, steam and diesel outline - some of which are battery r/c. So I'm not tied to slaving over a hot steam-powered model. If I noted that I actually ENJOY having to do all the necessary things to get a steam locomotive moving, perhaps I'd be wasting valuable electronic letters, and still failing to convince you.

But I'm not trying to effect a sea-change in your opinion, TBH, I could care less what you or anybody else thinks, after all, it's MY trainset, right?

However, I take comfort that I'm not the only one here who likes steam - that's why this is such a great hobby - it caters for all opinions, and your choice is your choice - nobody it twisting your arm.
 
tac foley

tac foley

Registered
11 Apr 2017
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Near Huntingdon, UK
An inertia wagon is an inexpensive solution for a runaway steam locomotive. Zach Bond is the original thinker who modified a Zecar toy & this video shows what can be done. The connection between loco & wagon must be rigid, so as to push the loco as necessary. I have built one for a Mamod SL1 & it really is effective.


Thanks for that, Perry. I watched it and wrote - 'Brilliant, Sir!! I congratulate you! Not only a VERY small fraction of the cost of a well-known 'made-to-measure' inertia device, but it can be put behind ANY locomotive at will. No disassembly of the loco is needed, and your device would readily fit in most 16mm NG wagons or coaches. Disguising the noise is not difficult - enclosing the mechanism in soft foam will do it.'
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
22,454
163
Tamworth, Staffs.
I assume you have to 'balance' the load of the inertia wagon to the loco? - Too much, and I guess you could end-up with wheel-slip on the loco?

Would this be as catastrophic as on the 12" to the foot examples?
 
M

Moonraker

Registered
25 Oct 2009
864
1
South Australia
Putting an inertia device in a wagon which is rigidly coupled to the loco is certainly a low cost and flexible approach. However it is a very delicate balance which may not be successful. With just the inertia device, the wagon wheels will slip on the rails and the wagon will neither push or retard the loco which is much heavier. Therefore, to be effective, a lot of weight has to be added to the wagon and this makes it harder for the loco to pull its train. In the video, half a kilo had to be added to make it work. Add a few gradients and the problem worsens. I know someone who tried this, never got it to work well and ended up putting the inertia device where it belongs...in the loco.

And to answer the question, why live steam. It will surprise nobody that I have many (9) battery locos with sound on my railway. Two weeks ago I had an open day with lots of people sitting around the railway eating, drinking and chatting. Three or four trains ran all the time and got passing interest. Out comes a live steam loco with a whistle (Roundhouse Taliesin) and the leap in interest was obvious. Yes, I like battery locos for all the reasons Rik stated but a live steam loco, no matter how long it takes to get going, is something special.

Regards
Peter Lucas
MyLocoSound
 
Alan B

Alan B

3D printer/maker trains motor bikes BMW
6 Apr 2015
108
0
Milang South Australia
I have been reading this thread with interest and I have now decided that i will go with the Australian built Jack i like 7/8ths and at around $4000 AU (2184 pounds) Factory fitted with summerlands chuffer, slomo and radio control it sounds a bargain.
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
14,399
179
71
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
I assume you have to 'balance' the load of the inertia wagon to the loco? - Too much, and I guess you could end-up with wheel-slip on the loco?

Would this be as catastrophic as on the 12" to the foot examples?
Some of my vids show Jack slipping in the Snow before being fitted with the SloMo. And no no repeat of Blue Peter trashing the Valve gear, though I suspect too much of that sort of treatment over a lot of years would not be good. However with careful driving and now since the SloMo fitting slipping can be avoided. My Jack will now pull a greater load up my 1:30 since the SloMo has been fitted as slipping is eradicated, he just bites into the load getting it up the grade. Little bit similar to a 56 on a heavy Coal Drag round a pit or power station, just slipping but not loosing it to keep the train moving oh so slowly.

As Tac says there is nothing to beat the effect of a Live Steam Loco, it just feels right and I do accept what you say about setting up, getting ready etc but for a limited run time unless you have a Coal or Meths Fired Loco that can be kept in Steam pretty well all day that 20 - 30 Minutes is just magic.
 
maxi-model

maxi-model

UK/US/ROW steam narrow gauge railways 1:1
27 Oct 2009
4,402
52
Bucks/Oxon/Northants area
OK. I appreciate that some people seem to like the idea of a live steam loco, but I am still yet to be convinced. From what I've seen, it takes about 20 mins to set one up, you get a runtime of 40 mins (or less) during which time you're tending to it like a needy child, then it takes another 20 mins to sort it out afterwards. They cost an arm and a leg to buy and if you want decent slow running you have to add a Slomo device which will set you back another £300.

I suppose it depends on what you run your railway for. I am more than happy with my battery locos. They are up and running almost immediately. I get up to 12 hours running from one charge. They seem to me to be less needy and I can make a decent battery steam outline loco for less than £150 - oh and they run very slowly and are highly controllable.

OK. I'll crawl back inside my box. But I do wonder about this obsession with live steam.

Rik
Rik, would you accept a ride up the DHR in a diesel powered Sharp Stewart (or NBL) steam outline loco with a coachload of passengers going, "Chuf, chuff, chuff, chuff wooo, wooo" ? :)

I have to accept that, finally, my once track powered and now battery powered My Loco Sound carded GRS kit supplied L&B Manning Wardle has become a godsend. However, its all up cost (even though I supplied all the labour) is that of a good 2nd hand live steamer at the better end of the "starter" market. "Has become" - You don't really want to know the 7 year saga it took with a failed gearbox after 20 hours use, resulting in 4 strip downs due to bodged work by the supplier till finally rectified. And the 2 successive faulty chargers (from the same source, who supplied the ESC and batteries) that required a further 2 stripping to trace the fault. And then there were further strippings to do the battery conversion and then the sound card - Arrrgh ! After all the frustration 1 battery loco is enough for me ( I lie, its now grown to 2 out of necessity - battery cures a problem when operating another type of formerly track powered loco). I'll stick to nice simple track and live steam power. You touched a sore nerve there Rik but I do see their benefits, finally :D
 
maxi-model

maxi-model

UK/US/ROW steam narrow gauge railways 1:1
27 Oct 2009
4,402
52
Bucks/Oxon/Northants area
At, say, ten pounds a day for a pack of cigarettes, giving up the cancer-sticks will give you £3650 per annum.
Or £1,600 PA if you were a 40 a day merchant like me and made 6 monthly trips to Adinkerke for supplies. Nice day out via Le Shuttle and the added benefit of a very large Leonidas choccy shop round the corner from the baccy' store. Oh, and it's the starting (and finishing - circular route) point for the coastal tram. I gave up smoking 15 years ago (hypnotherapy, worked a treat for me. probably the best £300 I ever spent)). I started in the Garden rail hobby 15 years ago - the two events are not totally unrelated. Thread drift on ! Max
 
JimmyB

JimmyB

Phase 1 complete, roll on Phase 2
23 Feb 2018
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Weston-super-Mare
OK. I appreciate that some people seem to like the idea of a live steam loco, but I am still yet to be convinced.

Rik
Rik, my getting into G Scale was all about running live steam, first I needed some track that was stable, and some electric locos in the intermediate time, and now I am ready to progress.
 
The Tinker

The Tinker

Every day I wake up is a good day
6 Feb 2014
241
0
Whangamata New Zealand
I have both live steam and battery operated locos. it depends on what sort of running I want to do. Steam for pulling trains round and around the lay out, battery are far easier to use for proper running to a timetable, including a little shunting and changing wagons. I agree the steam certainly gets visitors on there feet. I have had 3 groups visit my layout in the last 2 weekends. Most were non train people, they enjoyed the battery trains operating like a real railway. But the cameras came out and the interest level really changed when I fired up my steamers and ran them. Most of the people did think I was mad and had never grown up, which was a great result
 
ge_rik

ge_rik

British narrow gauge (esp. Southwold and W&LLR)
24 Oct 2009
9,543
90
Cheshire
www.riksrailway.blogspot.com
Fair enough. It depends on your motivation, I suppose. For me, it was having the space to set up a complete ng railway system and so the locos are the means to the end of running a fairly realistic timetable and train movements. I appreciate that for others, the lure of live steam is the attraction of being in the garden.

Each to their own. Which is what this hobby is all about, really.

Rik