Wheelspinning Mogul (LGB 25196)

Ralphmp

Ralphmp

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My Durango & Silverton Mogul has a bad case of wheelspin. It's so bad it can't haul itself round the layout without coming to a halt or a crawl with the wheels spinning. Add the tender and things are even worse! As minimum radius on the part of the layout I was using is R3, there is no gradient, and the wheelspin occurs both on straights and curves, I don't think it's a simple case of the loco struggling with the layout geometry. Also, as other locos ran around the layout OK, i don't think I have an issue with dirty/greasy track.

I bought the loco secondhand a while back and when the loco was demonstrated to me all seemed well, apart from the rear light not working (I was told this was a failed bulb but it actually proved to be the lead for the rear light was in the wrong socket on the main circuit board...). There wasn't much wear on the wheels and the pristine state of the body indicated it hadn't had a hard life outdoors. I confess I missed the "Made in China" stamping when I inspected it.

As I run DCC and the loco was Analog, I've installed a Massoth XLS decoder and firebox module. Whilst I was doing this I also fitted a new traction tyre. The loco ran fine on the rolling road at crawl, slow, medium and fast speeds with no trace of binding or slipping. However, when I tried it outside recently, the wheelspin problem immediately became apparent.

I tried pressing down on the loco whilst the wheels were spinning and it regained traction, so I taped a spare lead weight onto the cab roof to see if this would help matters but it didn't make any noticeable difference.

Before I start piling on more weights (and possibly overload the motor)I wondered if anyone else has encountered a similar issue with this loco type? If so, was it as as simple as the loco being "too light" or is there something else I should be looking at?

Thanks
 
Check the traction tyres, they could be worn completely or even have perished and fallen off.

Are the pilot wheels spinning OK when turned by hand?

Are the pickup skates depressing nicely so that they are not stiff and pushing the chassis up away from the rails?
 
and the pilot wheels and skates?
 
Can you push the loco along easily. It has a very easy gearing and loose motion and the rods etc should turn as you push it.
 
If you've changed the traction tyre, make sure it's properly seated in the groove.

I'd suspect stiff pickup skates as has been suggested, that can have a big influence of traction.

Lube the front pilot axle if it's not running freely.
 
Mike -
beavercreek said:
Can you push the loco along easily. It has a very easy gearing and loose motion and the rods etc should turn as you push it.
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When I first got it it seemed a bit stiff so I checked the gearbox and relubricated, and since then it's much freer. I've also checked the alignment of the counterweights on the driving wheels )both sides) and these all line up OK so I don't think the gearing is out.

Nick - Pilot wheel spins freely but the skates aren't as smooth sliding in and out as other locos I have - they seem a bit "notchy". I'll take them out, clean everything up and fit some new ones and try again (when the rain lets up!). Hopefully this will do the trick.

Phil - thanks for the link. I didn't pick up on this when I searched but some useful info.
 
There is also only the one traction tyre, and these go hard over time.. - so slip, rather than grip.

They are not available (or weren't when I last looked), but there is a work-around using a USA Trains traction tyre.. These are smaller, but more like a 'real' rubber-band, and stretch to fit.

I also happen to have some here!
PhilP.
 
PhilP said:
There is also only the one traction tyre, and these go hard over time.. - so slip, rather than grip.

They are not available (or weren't when I last looked), but there is a work-around using a USA Trains traction tyre.. These are smaller, but more like a 'real' rubber-band, and stretch to fit.

I also happen to have some here!
PhilP.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the offer; that's very kind. I've already fitted a new TT (as you say, the existing one was "hard" - extra crispy, in fact!). I got a replacement from GRS (their equivalent of LGB 69184). I've used their own brand products previously and so far they have been fine, so hopefully this won't be the exception. If the skate overhaul doesn't do the trick I'll be in touch about the USA trains tyres. Thanks again.
 
I too suspect the skates, or, something which is keeping the loco from evenly sitting on the rails.

While remote i would think, the front pilot has a plunger spring as i recall, and this may be too stiff (i may be mstaken in this, i know the forneys do, but its been years since i had to disassemble a mogul).

While i own six moguls none are chinese.
However, my experience with chinese lgb locos is that metal parts may not be well finished, ie rough edges.

I think if you pull the skates andclean up the retainers and the skates with a fine jewelers file, or, if none, fine sandpaper, the skates will float better. While a light oil will do, graphite or teflon powder doesnt attract grit.

Hint, your chinese loco likely has lighter internal weights. If you decide to add weight, not too much, as it makes the loco pull like a bull, but also wears gears.
 
stevedenver said:
I too suspect the skates, or, something which is keeping the loco from evenly sitting on the rails.

While remote i would think, the front pilot has a plunger spring as i recall, and this may be too stiff (i may be mstaken in this, i know the forneys do, but its been years since i had to disassemble a mogul).

While i own six moguls none are chinese.
However, my experience with chinese lgb locos is that metal parts may not be well finished, ie rough edges.

I think if you pull the skates andclean up the retainers and the skates with a fine jewelers file, or, if none, fine sandpaper, the skates will float better. While a light oil will do, graphite or teflon powder doesnt attract grit.

Hint, your chinese loco likely has lighter internal weights. If you decide to add weight, not too much, as it makes the loco pull like a bull, but also wears gears.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tips - once I've finished my Honey-Dos I'll be working on the skates.
 
Very likely to be the skates sticking in the slider groove. As said above - clean up - smooth off and a LITTLE lube.
 
As it's not a big job I suggest test running after removing the pony truck and skates.
If the loco will run without the tender connected so much the better. It should still be able to propel a few test wagons running cab first even if they won't couple like the absent tender.
 
Good News! Turns out it was a problem with the skates. One was catching in it's housing and wasn't able to move up and down freely. This was cured by dismantling, cleaning & lubricating the housings and running a very fine file over the skates themselves as suggested by Steve. Having just done several test runs it looks like the wheelspin issue has been resolved. Whilst I had the baseplate off the gearbox I also took the opportunity to add a smidge of grease to the pony truck pivot

Interestingly, I ran the loco on its own first (no tender) and it performed with no lurches, slips, etc. even though the track was a bit damp. Current draw (according to my Navigator) was 0.6 Amps. Adding the tender the loco ran just as well with no increase in current draw. I then added 6 fairly weighty wagons one at a time (wanted to see if the loco would reach a point where it lost adhesion) and even when pulling all 6 the current draw only rose to 0.8 Amps.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions & advice; once again the forum has a happy customer!
 
I am mightily impressed with your raised railroad. Versatile layout too.
Btw, is your mogul running an lgb sound? All my older moguls have two chuffs per revolution. Four looks and sounds so much better.

What are your footers? I am inspired to try this. Nice height, and, safer from dogs, great for electrical. Very nice.
 
stevedenver said:
I am mightily impressed with your raised railroad. Versatile layout too.
Btw, is your mogul running an lgb sound? All my older moguls have two chuffs per revolution. Four looks and sounds so much better.

What are your footers? I am inspired to try this. Nice height, and, safer from dogs, great for electrical. Very nice.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the kind comments. The mogul is using an XLS decoder onto which Muns kindly downloaded Massoth's 2-6-0 Mogul soundfile. I haven't changed any CVs that affect chief rate so what you see is how it came "out of the box".

One of my aims when I built my layout was I had to be able to work on it from a sitting position when my health deteriorated to the point I couldn't get down on my hands and knees very easily. Glad I went down that route.
Basically everything is supported on 3 x 3 fence posts cut to give a height of around 2'6". The posts are mounted in MetPosts which means no worries about post rot below ground and if we move house I can remove all traces of railway quite easily. I uploaded some photos back in 2013 of the construction. I'll try and find the link when I next get on my Mac.
Thanks again.
 
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